Dear Culture

Meet Panama Jackson, the New Host of Dear Culture

Episode 106

The Dear Culture podcast relaunches with a new look, new vibe, and new host, Panama Jackson! Get to know the writer, commentator and Black culture specialist when former host Gerren Keith Gaynor passes the baton to the next era of Black Culture Amplified.

Read Full Transcript Below:

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:00:00] While we are heading into a new era of Dear Culture. The mission is obviously the same, which is to be a voice for the culture, but doing it authentically. [00:00:13][13.7]

Panama Jackson: [00:00:15] What’s going on, everybody? Welcome to Dear Culture, the podcast for, by and about the culture and conversations happening in and around the Black community and our culture. And we’re going to have a real interesting conversation today. This is an episode that is about passing the baton, passing the torch, so to speak, because if you notice you’re listening to Dear Culture and Panama Jackson, that’s me, I am talking, it is not the voices that you’re used to, the folks that you know. So for this changing of the guard, we decided to bring one of the hosts, Mr. Gerren Keith Gaynor, on to kind of help explain what the hell is about to happen here at Dear Culture. Before I intro you, a man who needs no introduction, Gerren How are you doing today, brother? [00:01:02][46.6]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:01:03] I’m doing great, Panama. I mean, like, this is surreal for us to be back at Dear Culture, but with a different host. But I’m excited to have this conversation with you. I think that you are the perfect person to pass the baton to … [host] this show that was really a labor of love for me and for Shana and the other previous hosts of Dear Culture. So I’m ready to get into it. [00:01:29][26.3]

Panama Jackson: [00:01:30] Yeah. And for one, I appreciate that. Thank you for saying that. Your vote of confidence makes it a little bit easier to take over such a significant and important part of what theGrio is doing. And, you know, there was a little hesitation, a little nerves there upfront about being willing to take on something that had already been established where there’s already voices that are established there. So before we get into that, I mean, so what you know, I was going to interrupt you, but what are what are you doing? What is your job here at the at theGrio? And why can’t you do this anymore? Because you’re so busy. Break that down. [00:02:03][32.8]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:02:04] Yes. So I. I thought about this long and hard, and I really enjoyed doing Dear Culture every single week. But the reality is that it was really difficult for me to do a weekly podcast show and do what I’m doing now, which is I am the managing editor of politics at theGrio running our D.C. bureau here in Washington, D.C.. I’ve been in and out of the White House covering the press briefing at the Capitol, just covering all this happening here in Washington as it relates to politics, alongside my colleague, the illustrious history making April Ryan, the longest serving Black woman, White House correspondent in the history of correspondents. And the work that we’re doing is very meaningful. And as you know, Panama, there’s a lot happening in our country. And it’s important that someone is there representing Black America and asking those hard questions and exploring those really important stories. And I knew that I couldn’t do both. You know, I’m doing interviews, I’m editing, I’m a correspondent. And so I felt like this was the best decision for me. But it’s a very exciting time because we are the only Black owned digital news outlet in the press briefing room. We have a seat in the room, as one might say, we have a seat at the table and we want to take every advantage of being at that table. And it is something that I don’t take lightly. And in order for me to really do this and do this work well, I knew I had to step away. And I remember when you and I had the conversation about you taking the reins of Dear Culture, I was like, This is actually a perfect idea, wasn’t my idea initially. But I was so happy that you came to came to me and Shana and asked us for your blessing, which I thought was very respectable and commendable because it’s important for the For Dear Culture Podcast to continue on. Not only is this the flagship podcast for theGrio Podcast Network, but it was it’s what launched us into the podcast space. But also it was connected to so many beautiful memories. It was connected to also some very not so positive memories because this launched during a pandemic where we saw COVID disproportionately kill Black and brown people and we didn’t really understand what COVID was and where the country was headed. It happened during a time when Black and brown people were being murdered by police and vigilantes. And and so Dear Culture started out as like this kind of like this diary of the Black experience during one of the most transformative, heartbreaking years in this country’s history. And and then ushering into 2021, where we had the insurrection. And so I can–when I think about 2020, I think about my time on this show, you know, documenting how I felt about the many things that were happening in our society and and all the interviews that we did talking to mental health professionals and and political commentators about what’s happening in our world, what’s happening in our culture. And so I think that you, as someone who is in your own right, a luminary in the culture people. Someone who people want to hear from. I think that you are perfect to continue the mission of what we used to call a love letter to Black culture because it’s called Dear Culture for a reason. We were actually very surprised that there was no other podcast with the name Dear Culture. And so we were, we were at which we looked really hard. We did a lot of research and there was no podcast with that name. And obviously it kind of plays on, you know, Dear White People, which we know was a very popular book and then film and then series. And so it was kind of in the vein of that, of like being very honest and truthful about the Black experience. But rather than talking to white people, talking to each other. [00:06:34][269.4]

Panama Jackson: [00:06:35] You know, it’s interesting that, you know, the podcast is kind of viewed as like a letter to the culture because I plan on doing something similar, but I’m more this time is instead of a letter, I’m going to be asking the culture questions kind of thing where I like, you know, we’re bringing these interesting conversations which are going to vacillate from the absurd but very rooted in like Blackness and Black cultural esthetics and stuff like that. And sometimes it is going to be serious and, and, but we’re going to be asking these cultural questions. So I really appreciate that ideology of like, you know, a letter to the culture. And I think you all really did a good job of of addressing cultural issues and talking to the people and talking to all of us about what’s happening within the culture. What–Do you have, like a first memory of when you guys first started Dear Culture? Like, do you remember the first show that you all did? [00:07:23][48.2]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:07:25] Oh, wow, that’s a good question. I, I my first episode, I believe, may have been I was me and Natasha Alford, who was our–one of our vice presidents here at theGrio. And was also one of our senior correspondents. And I remember we did an episode with Angela Yee, who is the co-host of The Breakfast Club. And Angela is someone who really is a friend to theGrio. We’ve interviewed her countless times, and it was about her dual identity as a Black woman, but also an Asian-American. And if people might not remember that during the height of the pandemic, Asian-Americans were being harassed and attacked because we had a president who was calling the COVID 19, the China virus, and she kind of lived in the at the center of the of this virus because Black people were most impacted by the virus and Asian-Americans were being harassed and being blamed for the virus. And we thought that she had a really interesting perspective, being kind of at the center of that. But but generally, I just remember starting the podcast from my home. We know we had not intended for, for Dear Culture to be so had been launched from our living rooms or our bedrooms or in some cases our closets. We had planned to build a studio in our New York offices. We had hired a consultant to help us build the infrastructure for the podcast. And then then the shutdown happened and we decided, you know, we had all this extra time on their hands. We were obviously working and, you know, running the site of theGrio dot com. But we said, why not just launch the podcast anyway? And it was– there were some false starts, you know, we didn’t really quite know the direction we wanted to take it. So initially it started out as all the full time staff of theGrio kind of rotating host. So every week you would you would be introduced to me or Natasha or or another or Courtney Wills, who was our entertainment director, who had now has her own podcast. And so Acting Up, please listen to acting up such a great show. She’s so good at that. And so the idea was to introduce the culture to theGrio staff and then eventually it had this other that this new iteration, which was two permanent hosts, myself and Shana. And it gave you a perspective from a Black woman, cisgender and Black queer man. And, and we poured our hearts out on this show. And to my point about launching it during the pandemic, we were able to kind of like use it as therapy to like kind of get through some really difficult times in the culture. And so, but my most memorable episode, there are so many, but if I had to choose a one, it would be for me, it was always important to center the Black LGBTQ community, and I believe that when we have a platform, we should use it wisely and for Pride Month during 2020, I wanted to really center the lives of Black queer people because during the Black Lives Matter movement and the George Floyd uprising, there were times where the voices and faces of of Black, queer, trans and nonconforming people were being ignored. And we wanted to create a episode that center everyone. So I interviewed Laverne Cox and Dyllon Burnside from Pose and Joyce Johnson, who is a phenomenal author and writer, who also started kind of started his career at theGrio. And we talked about representation. And censoring Black queer lives. And I was really proud of that episode because I helped produce that episode and it was kind of like a brainchild of mine to kind of merge the all of these things that were happening in 2020. But there’s so many memorable memories. But when we first started it, it was kind of scary. You know, I’m used to being a journalist, and so I always hid behind the byline. I just I just give you the news. And so Dear Culture became like this platform for me to actually use my voice to find my voice, to use my voice to. And it’s not easy sharing your opinion about what’s happening in news and entertainment. And it took some getting used to. I’m still not all the way comfortable sharing because especially now, especially now being in the world of politics, I think it’s really important to be mindful of things that you say. But one thing that I was proud of, not only finding my voice and using my voice was being vulnerable. And I think that that’s something I would really want you, Panama, to continue to do, because we we talked about things like we talked about our personal lives a lot. And I know that you do that in your writing talking about your family and your children, and I would just encourage you to do that more because what we found is that when you share, when you wear your heart in your sleeve and you share your true experiences, you find that people can really relate to that. And so many people would reach out and say, thank you for saying that because it affirms people and makes them feel seen and heard, we share things about our love lives. I shared a very heavy topic about being sexually abused as a child, and these are things that are not always easy to share. It takes a lot of courage and strength to do, but it’s also important because, again, there’s someone who might have walked that same life and it may need to be encouraged. And so Dear Culture is not just about yeah, it’s about, you know, talking about the culture and in ways that are funny and provocative, but also talking about the very real things that make up the Black experience. And we know that the Black experience is not monolithic. And so I think that that’s what makes Dear Culture so special. [00:14:01][395.4]

Panama Jackson: [00:14:02] It’s interesting to hear you say that it was hard to share parts of yourself because when I listen to those episodes, I don’t get that at all. In fact, I always felt like I was like, Man, they were really giving a lot of who they are. Any episodes that I listen to, especially I think I remember listening to one about talking about being sexually abused and things like I’m just like, Wow, this is really this is really deep. And it made me wonder, like, I can’t imagine when you all started this, that’s where you thought you would be going with it. But obviously these things morph over time, right? You know, the the the goals, how they start. You remember you said that it was going to start like as a rotating uh rotating host kind of thing. And then it was settled on you and Shana. And then you all start getting into really in-depth topics and really and really going there with them in a way that I felt was very informative, very educational, but vulnerable in a way that I don’t really hear on a ton of podcasts that I’ve listened to, especially that center Blackness in all facets of the Black experience. So, you know. Was that one of the things that you’re most proud of? Like if you had to say, like, what are you most proud of? About what you all were able to do with Dear Culture? Because in my mind it’s not the answer for you, but in my mind, like that’s… I am proud to listen to what you all did with it, just because of where you all were able to go and the conversations you all were able to land. But for you, what were the things that you’re most proud of that you all accomplished? [00:15:27][85.0]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:15:29] First, thank you for that. Panama You never really know what the work that you do and the words your words can do and how it will be received. But yeah, I was I was incredibly terrified to to share those vulnerable parts of myself, because the reality is that, you know, I can speak as a Black queer person, it’s still a struggle to be out. We see these waves of bills being passed in states like Florida that are targeting LGBTQ youth. And while, you know, sometimes I wonder, like, what’s harder being in the closet or being out and then being targeted through, you know, all these laws being passed right now. And it’s not easy, but I would say I am proud of that vulnerability and kind of like revealing the true parts of myself that, you know, I don’t always share. You know, there were times I said things on this show that I didn’t even share with my own family. And, you know, it wasn’t always part of the plan. It was really because I– we could not talk about we could not talk to the culture and not be authentic. One thing you know about Black people is that we know authenticity. So I tried to kind of hold back initially in the early parts of Dear Culture. And then after a while I was like, Listen, if we’re going to do this, we got to do this right. We have to like really be real. I think that that is what audiences really want. You know, no one wants to hear the sugarcoated version of our lives. And we all know that while, you know, you might see us on the gram posting, you know, I post pictures in the White House press briefing room and it looks cool. But the reality is that I’m a human being who also struggles and has insecurities and can also deal with imposter syndrome. And so we decided to share that. Like, why not share that with our audience? Because if we are experiencing that and we are in the and privileged to be in these spaces, then I’m sure that there are other people who are experiencing that too, and they’re in their walks of life, even if they’re not in media. You might be a teacher or a lawyer or a doctor, and you might also be dealing with these same struggles. And so I was proud of that because it was able to to kind of break down that wall, because we’re all really the same, even though we are very different, if you know what I mean. [00:18:03][153.8]

Panama Jackson: [00:18:04] Right. Absolutely. Yeah. All right. We’re going to take a real quick break here and we’ll be right back. More with Gerren as we talk about Dear Culture, past and future here on Dear Culture. All right. We’re back here on Dear Culture I’m Panama Jackson, and I’m joined by Gerren Gaynor. Gerren Keith Gaynor, I know every time you introduce yourself, you have all three names. I want to make sure I get a brotha’s name right– my Morehouse brotha. [00:18:33][28.9]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:18:33] Got it. You got it. You got to get that. The brand thing got to be right. You know. [00:18:36][2.6]

Panama Jackson: [00:18:37] Fam, the branding has to be right. And I’m glad, you know, it’s funny. I’m glad you said that because. One of the things that I think you all done, you and Shana did really well with Dear Culture, was kind of create a brand around what Dear Culture meant. Like you had a bunch of episodes. You all had a very clear esthetic, you know? And it just. I understood the assignment, right? And, no, you all understood the assignment, and I received it. I got what was happening. There we go. So the question I have here is, why do you think it’s important for a podcast like Dear Culture to exist in the first place? [00:19:11][33.4]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:19:13] That’s a good question. You know, Dear Culture should they should exist because, you know, there are a ton of podcasts nowadays that speak to many different types of experiences. And Dear Culture was initially designed to talk to Black millennials. And and then they kind of just evolved into this again, this like love letter to Black Culture and our podcast because it is part of theGrio is that is Black owned and we know we have a lot of podcast platforms, we have a lot of Black media, very few of them are Black owned. And there was a there’s a sense of freedom that comes with that because we don’t have to we’re not beholden to this like white corporate structure, you know, with the exception of maybe a few curse words. You know, Shana and I were able to kind of say exactly what we meant whenever we wanted to say it, however we wanted to say it. I think for Dear Culture fans, they know that Shana was more of the the one who had more of– more expressive than I. We communicated very differently, but I think it worked out so beautifully because we were so different. We always said that, you know, we were the yin and yang to each other. You know, she was the fire. And I was kind of like the water. And and we kind of like we worked so well together. You know, initially I didn’t know if that if it would work. I’m like, oh, my gosh, I’m not like Shana. I’m not, you know, my my anger shows differently. And but it ended up being like this beautiful partnership. And I think that that while we are heading into a new era of Dear Culture, the mission is obviously the same, which is to be a voice for the culture. But but doing it authentically. And, you know, I’m sure that other podcasts aimed for that same thing, but I think that Dear Culture is really special and and honestly, I mean, like, the title is just really cool, isn’t it? [00:21:28][134.7]

Panama Jackson: [00:21:29] It is such a cool title, bro. Let me tell you, when when I when I joined theGrio back in January and I came on. The plan was to do a podcast. And then eventually, over time, that’s how we even ended up here. You know, I realized that you and Shana both had a million things on your plates, right? The idea of of perhaps moving out of the space, it was like, I guess the timing kind of lined up. And I remember talking. I was like, I mean, that you can’t lose a name as good as Dear Culture for a podcast. So, you know, conversations were had that I was like, you know, I kind of want I want to talk to them and see if they’d be okay. You know, if what I’m hearing is true that they are ready to kind of move on to different spaces that perhaps I can step in here so that we can have some continuity because we cannot lose that essence, that ethos of what you are brought to the table so far, even if you know, my own, my own esthetic is going to be different. Right? Like, you know, the way that I approach conversations is going to be very much in the vein of how I tend to write my articles and stuff like that. But all the point is, is all very much about the culture. It’s all about speaking to the culture. It’s about Black culture and making sure that. You know, the conversations that we have in the culture have a place to shine, you know, and not just in a way that is just asking a question, but actually having a real conversation about it. And, you know. This kind of leads into something that I was. So this is a segment that we’re going to do. You know, we’re going to have these conversations. But there’s a segment that I’m going to do a Blackfession randomly did this one night on Facebook. It was like a Friday night. I was bored and I was like, you know, I think I just mentioned something. I don’t remember what I said. I just called it a Blackfession and I got like a thousand comments on this thing. Like, immediately it hit Twitter. It was the craziest thing and I’m like boy, y’all really got a lot on y’all, souls y’all need to get off apparently, people been holding onto some things. I was like, No, that be a fun thing to do with guests. So it’s like, I’m going to introduce Blackfessions and we tell the guests that. And thus far, everybody has sent me their Blackfessions in advance. You did the same thing and you put something that I find so dumbfounding, but it’s more that proof that we are not monolithic. So please, brother, my good brother, my Morehouse brother, my brother who spent time in the A, what you said you had two things, but the first one is the one that stands out to me. What was your Blackfession? [00:23:38][129.2]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:23:39] So my Blackfession is that. [00:23:43][3.4]

Panama Jackson: [00:23:43] Take your time. [00:23:44][0.3]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:23:45] I don’t like sweet tea and I don’t think it’s sweet. I think it’s bitter. [00:23:49][4.4]

Panama Jackson: [00:23:52] I don’t even understand this. [00:23:52][0.5]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:23:52] I’m sorry. [00:23:52][0.0]

Panama Jackson: [00:23:54] This is this is almost this is not quite on par with the sugar versus salt grits debate. You know what I’m saying? But how did you discover that you do not like sweet tea? Because I don’t understand. I’m a Southerner, by the way. Like I’m a Southerner. Where you overdo the sugar. Right? You put is what you start with the sugar, then you add a drink to it. You know what I’m sayin’, you you don’t. You don’t just add sugar to your drink. How did you make this discovery that you don’t do sweet tea and how much of a liability has it been in yo life? [00:24:21][27.1]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:24:23] Well, I am not Southern. However, my family does come from the South. You know, my grandparents on both sides are from North and South Carolina, but I am born and raised in Brooklyn, New York. And so I am a city boy. And there wasn’t sweet tea in New York. It wasn’t a thing until I moved to Atlanta for College at Morehouse, and everyone is talking about sweet tea and how good sweet tea is. And honestly, when people were talking about sweet tea, I thought that they were talking about iced tea because in my family, my my dad would make my mom they would make, you know, like the prepared like the powder from I don’t know what brand it was, but they would get from like Costco and they would put a ton of sugar in it. And it was sweet. It was very sweet. It was so good I would have it with all of my dinner. And then I moved to Atlanta, everyone talking about sweet tea, and I’m thinking that that’s what sweet tea is. And I drink it and, you know, yeah, there was sugar in it, but it was it tasted bitter like I just whether it was McDonald’s or whether it was like Busy Bee in Atlanta. [00:25:25][62.2]

Panama Jackson: [00:25:26] Did you get Miss Winters? Did you get Miss Winters Sweet Tea? [00:25:28][2.1]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:25:29] I didn’t have Miss Winters sweet tea. [00:25:30][1.1]

Panama Jackson: [00:25:30] Ahhhhhh [00:25:30][0.0]

[00:25:32] But I just could not I just couldn’t get into it. I just really couldn’t. Iced tea, my version of iced tea, when I was a kid, that was sweet to me. [00:25:41][8.8]

Panama Jackson: [00:25:42] That’s so interesting. [00:25:43][0.8]

Panama Jackson: [00:25:44] So yeah. I’m just not a fan. Sorry. [00:25:45][1.7]

Panama Jackson: [00:25:47] That cut me deep when I saw that even more so than the second thing that you added, which was that you haven’t seen any of the Friday movies, was that was that correct or was the sequels? [00:25:57][10.3]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:25:57] So correct. I so, you know, when like you, you know, when a movie is so popular, especially in Black culture that, you know, it’s referenced all the time. So I’ve seen many scenes from Friday and but I don’t remember ever sitting down and watching a Friday movie from beginning to end. I am 33 years old, so I was a little young when this first came out. And, you know, I did grow up in the household where my parents were kind of like policing what I watch. And so maybe that played a role in it. But I’ve never really watched Friday before. You know, I think I think I think about the famous scenes from like on the porch, on the porch with Chris Tucker and Ice Cube. But I had never watched it. I don’t plan to watch it. I’m sure it’s funny. [00:26:50][52.8]

Panama Jackson: [00:26:51] That one doesn’t hit me. Yeah, yeah. That one doesn’t hit me the same way as the sweet one because I can understand age. Like when when Friday came out, I was 16, 15 or 16. I had to watch it. [00:27:03][12.0]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:27:03] You were coming of age. So what you were coming of age at that time, so that makes sense that you you know, but you would watch it. I was a little younger, so. [00:27:10][7.6]

Panama Jackson: [00:27:11] And if I didn’t see it, I was effectively going to be out of the conversations about it. Right. Like, you know, we would we had the VHS tapes, we would watch it to rewind it like that was the thing we would sneak to watch. Because if your parents saw what you were watching, they’d be like, What is this kind of thing? But you know, then they would watch it too. So yeah, this is thank you for sharing. This is your most vulnerable moment as far as I’m concerned, because admitting you don’t like sweet tea– [00:27:33][22.0]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:27:36] Listen because if y’all try to revoke by a Black card, I’m going to be really heartbroken because I’m very Black. I’m from Bed-Stuy. I went to Morehouse, I’m Black, but. [00:27:45][9.7]

Panama Jackson: [00:27:46] Your card is stamped, we just got some questions. But you know, the funny thing about doing Blackfessions of this sort is that you find out so much stuff about people in these individual parts of Blackness. That we kind of all assume, we all share and then you find out, no, like there’s a huge amount of people that don’t right? Like that’s the fun part about it. Like just learning about how different Blackness can be no matter where you’re from, no matter how you grew up, no matter your entryway into certain parts of it, it’s just like we all have our things. And I think that’s what makes it fun and interesting and why that whole Blacks are not a monolith thing is so vital to every conversation we have about Blackness. [00:28:24][38.2]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:28:25] Amen [00:28:25][0.0]

Panama Jackson: [00:28:24] The other thing that we do is a Blackamendation, which is a recommendation about something by for or about Blackness, Black people centering Blackness in some way, shape or form. And do you have a Blackamendation? [00:28:37][12.8]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:28:39] Absolutely. Shameless plug. First support Black media, specifically Black owned media, and specifically at theGrio. I really encourage everyone to continue to support theGrio and really engage our stories, not just read them, but share them. I think that the work that we’re doing is really important, especially the work that we are that I’m doing with April in the D.C. Bureau. Again, we are the only Black media, Black owned media in that space. And we’re we’re tackling really important issues like the impact of student debt on Black communities, cannabis reform of racial bias in housing. And there’s just so many issues across the board that that we are challenging the Biden-Harris administration to address. They’ve made pledges to really center racial equity and address the historical inequities that have plagued not just Black communities, but Latino communities. And so I really want the culture to support that because we only win, when when we are supported and then also download theGrio’s app. Yes, we have an app so you can read theGrio on theGrio dot com, but you can also download the app, which I think is actually a more cooler way to read our stories, I think is a really great interface. You can stream video content, we’re going to have original content, we’re going to be licensing content. It’s a really great app. Like I, if I did not work for theGrio, I would still feel the same way about this app. I know some apps are just really cheaply made and just kind of thrown together. There was a lot of thought and intention with this app and but yeah, I think overall just support theGrio because you know, whenever we see Black legacy

media companies falter or fold, they go, Oh, there’s all this collective outrage when we had the opportunity to support them. And so I just want to reiterate that our success lies in support from our community because we’re doing it for you. And it’s for us and by us. [00:31:02][143.4]

Panama Jackson: [00:31:04] Absolutely. Well, look, Gerren. I appreciate you. I appreciate the vote of confidence in me taking over the mantle of what you and Shana built with Dear Culture. I look forward to making you all proud and ensuring that the legacy of what you all built has–the foundation is strong and it will allow, you know, whatever we’re going to do going forward to, you know, be viewed in the same vein with the same amount of respect and appreciation. So thank you for everything that you have done. You know, hopefully we can get you on an episode every so often, you know, maybe not too frequently. You got a lot of things going on occasion. But, you know, thank you. And for all the listeners out there, you know, welcome to welcome back to Dear Culture. Welcome back to to a podcast that you know and love. We’re going to have some fun. We’re going to do some fun things. And, you know, we’re gonna–you’re going to enjoy it the same way you used to, just maybe in a different way, you know what I’m saying? And we just we thank you all for for for sticking around. We thank you all for listening. We thank you all for participating and engaging. And if you enjoy what you’ve heard, make sure you give us a five star rating on wherever you get your podcast on Apple Podcasts. Check us out on Spotify. Google Play everywhere you get your podcast. And like Gerren said, make sure you check out that Grio app. It’s an amazing app. Like, I’m actually impressed by this app. I use it. I watch movies on it. I watch very Black movies on this app. There are lots of very Black movies, and I mean that in the Blackest way possible. This app, Dear Culture is now hosted by me, Panama Jackson and produced by Crystal Grant and technical production by Cameron Blackwell. Make sure you check us out. Listen. Have a Black one. [00:31:04][0.0]