DCP EP. 81 Unlearning White Supremacy

Transcribed by: Cameron Blackwell

Completion date: September 16, 2021 

DCP 81 AUDIO – Unlearning White Supremacy 

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:00:03] Welcome to Dear Culture, the podcast that gives you news you can trust for the culture. I’m your co-host, Gerren Keith Gaynor, Managing Editor at theGrio [00:00:11][7.6]

Shana Pinnock: [00:00:11] And I’m your co-host Shana Pinnock, Social media director at theGrio. And this week, we’re asking Dear Culture, how do we reject the anti-Blackness from within? But before we get into the show, G, what is on your mind this week? [00:00:32][20.8]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:00:32] So I’m sure everyone this week saw the Met Gala and there are many fashions at the Met Gala this year. Some I loved. And one that really stood out to me was Representative Alexandra Ocasio Cortez. She wore this dress that said tax the rich. And this has been a very big topic this week because Democrats in the House released their proposal to raise about two million dollars in taxes, two trillion dollars in taxes, I should say. So, as we know, President Trump, he passed the twenty seventeen tax cuts. And now that Democrats are in control, their mission is to raise three point five trillion dollars in the reconciliation bill. And this money will be used to address very important things like climate change. We’ve been talking about climate change a lot here at theGrio especially. We’ve been seeing the effects of hurricanes. And so this money will go toward climate change, will go toward social programs. We’ve seen some of the early benefits of the child tax credit. And so the Biden the administration wants to pay for this by raising taxes on the rich. Now, I am not a tax expert, but I have been following this a bit and it’s very convoluted. But just to give you guys a breakdown of what Democrats are attempting to do and they’re trying to raise taxes on people, individuals who make over four hundred thousand dollars. And for couples four hundred and fifty thousand dollars, people feel like raising taxes on four hundred thousand dollars is not the the goal is not the solution to improving the the the income inequality in this country to end the poverty, to end homelessness. And some people say that it needs to go further. And you have some Democrats, progressives like AOC who feel like there should be they should be taxed more than we should be taxing the super rich and not just those who are, you know, I would say lowly rich, if that is even the real term. But the problem with this new plan that the Democrats have released so far is that it doesn’t tax stocks and bonds and capital gains. So there’s income that can be taxed, but then there’s money that’s sitting in in accounts that the super rich have been able to find loopholes and not be taxed. People like Jeff Bezos, he is worth two hundred billion dollars and Jeff Bezos has income at Amazon is eighty one thousand dollars. So imagine someone who is worth two hundred billion dollars being taxed for his eighty one thousand dollars and is for his salary at Amazon. But he continues to make billions and billions of dollars in the stock market. And so there is a lot that it has to come to the table. Some moderate Democrats are against going after the super rich. They feel like they’re scared. They’re scared politically. If you are representative in a state that is a bit red or even purple, you have your constituents to answer to. And so politics is at play in this in this whole tax code battle. And I know that some people feel like AOC going to the Met gala wearing a tax the rich dress is bad optics because it’s a gala that’s worth thirty thousand dollars a plate. We don’t know if she paid for that entrance fee, but I will say that AOC has consistently said that she wants to increase the taxes on the rich. She has pointed out in previous interviews that there was once a time where rich people were taxed as much as 70 percent. And right now they’re proposing that they are taxed thirty nine, I think thirty nine point five percent of their income. So there’s a lot of money that I just feel like is not being touched in this whole tax code plan. And the reality is that for Black and brown people, for people who are working class or people who don’t make four hundred thousand dollars or more who are not millionaires, it seems incredibly unfair that during the pandemic we saw millionaires and billionaires make money and we’re seeing people being evicted from their homes and can’t can’t live their American dream. And so pay attention to what’s happening in Washington, like I always say, because if you’re not paying attention, the politicians are going to do what they want to do anyway behind your back. So it’s really important that Black voters and especially pay attention to what’s happening because this is impacting our communities, especially [00:05:06][273.5]

Shana Pinnock: [00:05:07] As a person who has voted for AOC and who will continue to vote for AOC. I think for me the I find it, it’s it’s it’s all about the optics at the end of the day, you know what I mean? And I think people don’t care about facts. So whether or not if she paid for a plate, she didn’t– you know she paid for a plate, and if she was in the. She was at the. She was actually lobbying some of these rich people, that doesn’t really matter. It’s a matter of the fact that, like, you went to this very hoity-toity event. Today with a message, but you’re still there, you know, I mean, like it feels kind of gross and it feels kind of tone-deaf. But, you know, let’s talk more about tone-deaf people, shall we, Gerren, because know on this show before, I have already said I, I tend to steer clear of this woman and her drama, mainly because her fans are rabid. They are they are weird and they’re crazy. [00:06:08][61.3]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:06:10] Are you talking about the barbs? [00:06:11][1.1]

Shana Pinnock: [00:06:12] Oh, we’re talking about the barbs here. All right. And talking about the barbs. So this week, Nicki Minaj, she was conspicuously absent from the VMAs. She had now announced that she wasn’t going to get to be at the VMAs, she wasn’t going to be at the Met Gala. And so that led to a lot of speculation about what’s going on because the VMAs and the Met Gala both required all attendees to be fully vaccinated. Nicki took to her Twitter, you know, her weapon of choice and decided that she. Well, first off, she’s going to let folks know that she did, in fact, contract covid. I guess she was doing a music video, ended up catching the rona somehow, et cetera, et cetera. But here’s where it takes a fun little turn. Nicki tweeted, “They want you to get vaccinated for the Met, if I get vaccinated, it won’t. For that,–” I’m guessing she means won’t. It won’t be. “It won’t for the Met. It’ll be once I feel like I’ve done enough research. I’m working on that now. In the meantime, my love’s be safe where the mass with two strings that grips your head and face, not the loose one prayer hand emojis heart emoji.” Now, had it just been this tweet, I would have nothing to say about Nicholas. I swear I wouldn’t. I would just be like, all right, you. That’s cool, girl. Whatever. But no, Nicki then took her Twitter out again to tweet. My cousin in Trinidad won’t get the vaccine because his friend got it and became impotent. His testicles became swollen. His friend was weeks away from getting married. Now, the girl called off the wedding. So just pray on it and make sure you’re comfortable with your decision. Not believe.” Nicholas. Nicki, I want to be very, very clear when I say, especially as it relates to Black and brown people, I understand the hesitancy. I understand the skepticism around the vaccine. We would be fools to think otherwise. Absolutely. Even though let’s be very clear, especially at the onset of the vaccine being handed out, there were definitely white people sneaking into Black neighborhoods to try and get the flu shot in the arm. I think that was enough for me, but fine for you. Hesitancy is fine. Misinformation is where I take umbrage, misinformation and using your using your your platform in a irresponsible way, your platform of millions, your platform of many youthful people, your platform of many people who unfortunately don’t read, who don’t read, who don’t want to be informed. The “I’m going to do my, my, my own research crew” to me typically means I’m going to look for videos and memes and Facebook posts and YouTube content that basically agrees with the preconceived notions, negative notions that I have anyway that are already based in nonfactual, anything that has nothing to do with science. You telling me this anecdotal story about your cousins friend’s balls? Girl, girl, girl, you sound stupid. You sound dumb. And what really kind of pissed me off with those two things. One, so earlier today she said she jumped back on and she’s like, oh, how her cousin went and texted her about this tweet. And she’s like, oh, if he found out because the news it was supposed to be a secret, girl. Why are you why are you gaslighting him? Why are you playing in our faces? Actually, I do know that, but I’ma get to that in a second. Now, let me backtrack. Let’s pull over apart. So Joan Reed, who is a theGrio alum who is pretty amazing, she’s an MSNBC television host. She has her own show The Read Out, took to her platform, to her own platform and basically said, coming, in my opinion, with love and respect to Nicki and saying, I’m disappointed in you as a fan, as a as someone who enjoys your music, who enjoys your artistry for you to use your platform in such a way that is so incredibly harmful. And you’re essentially you’re encouraging people in our marginalized community. You’re encouraging people who are already so much at risk, who are dying at astronomical numbers. You’re encouraging our folks to not get vaccinated, and this is the thing everyone likes to sit here and play devil’s advocate. Let’s be very clear. The Devil has never needed an advocate. He could do his work just by himself. Just because she did not say don’t get vaccinated means nothing. You’re sitting here and you’re splitting hairs. Don’t play with me. You telling me about this cousin’s friend’s balls? Who had to call off a wedding? Which let’s be very clear, sweetie. That was not the covid vaccine. That was an STD. That was an untreated study that was gonorrhea really, really. Nicki, really like the covid-19 vaccine where millions of people have gotten vaccinated. Do you mean to tell me that at no point in time if swollen balls were a valid side effect, you don’t think that would have blown up? You don’t think the Republicans would have jumped on it, which let’s be clear, Tucker Carlson certainly jumped on. He was out here reading your tweets, reading your tweets on his punk. You see, I was about to cuss. Reading your tweets on his show, reading your tweets on his show. You don’t think that that that that would have been something already discussed, that that would have been something already acknowledged. Nicholas, really is this part of your research, Nicholas, this anecdotal story that really and quite frankly, I don’t believe is true, but this this is what we’re supposed to believe as actual factual, ma’am. OK, now, Joy said Joy again came at her with respect. And Nicki took to her Twitter and tweeted, This is what happens when you’re so thirsty to down another Black woman by the request of the white man. Let’s pull over. I believe she doesn’t know who Joy Reid is. And I believe that she doesn’t know that Joy has her own show. And honestly, that tells me all that I need to know about Nikki. Nikki does not watch the news. OK, Nikki, Nikki does not read, but cool [00:12:28][375.8]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:12:29] Which is why she is spreading misinformation on social media, [00:12:32][3.0]

Shana Pinnock: [00:12:32] period. So that you didn’t bother to read all my tweets. I read them all. Nicki, let me pull over again. I read them all Nicki and you still sounds stupid. And then she says she’s quoting Joy here. She said, My God, sister, do better. Imagine getting your dumb ass on TV a minute after a tweet to spread a false narrative about a Black woman. Then she tweeted another one that says the two white men sitting there nodding their heads because. Because this uncle Tommy onna doing the work. How sad. Nick. Nick. First of all. I’m what I’m I’m not even going to to give you any kind of any kind of validity on on calling Joy Reid, Uncle Tommy on or anything of that nature. I’m not going to give you that because clearly you just you don’t know you’re misinformed. But this is what I find funny. You want to talk about how Joy is on some anti-Black and insane woman stuff when. I’m sorry. Aren’t you weren’t weren’t you just fine with your husband raping a woman and you were out here trying to silence her with money and trying to silence her with your barbs and trying to silence with your with your blog paying and payments and all this other stuff, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly, allegedly watching, you know, allegedly weren’t you are doing it. So who are you to talk about anything inside? Woman. Who are you to talk about anything about protecting Blackness when? I’m sorry, weren’t you also allegedly playing for your brothers, your convicted pedophile brothers court case, as you were also allegedly trying to bribe the mother of a little Black child for not testifying against your your your predator brother? OK, and this is what I mean when I say gaslighting. Right? Like. Nicki loves to to to to divert. She likes the yeah, let me let me point you somewhere else. Anywhere else. Girl, we’re still paying attention to the fact that your husband just pled guilty to the fact that he has to go, that he failed to register as a sex offender, worry about the fact that your husband can’t be within 100 yards of a school and stops in here worried about your friend’s cousin’s balls. If it’s it’s it is the it is the utter lack of accountability. It is again, you can be scared. You can be hesitant. All of those things. I completely understand that. Do you have a responsibility to use your platform in a way that is beneficial to the masses. Because that is what you signed up for. You could have kept that in the DRAFTS period. But, you know, it’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. It’s fine. Let’s talk about. [00:15:19][166.4]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:15:20] I’ll I’ll just I’ll just add that. Right. I agree that Nicki use her platform irresponsibly, but what bothered me the most was her reaction to Joy Reid. Because to your point, Sean, a story came with love. She said, as a fan, I am disappointed in you. And that clearly triggered Nicki to go on this very personal attack against another Black woman. So you’re you’re you’re accusing her of something, but you’re doing the very same thing to to Joy. And, you know, it really bothers me that I see that really as a misunderstanding. I think that has she just received it for what it was and not jump to not think the worst of Joy. I think that’s something thing that we do worse to each other in our community. We think the worse of each other. And she assume that Joy has some type of- has some type of agenda to attack her, to tear her down. And that’s not the case. We we should all be looking out for each other because this pandemic is impacting our communities more. And that is where Joy was coming from. And so to Nikki, I would say put the phone down and just listen before you speak [00:16:26][65.5]

Shana Pinnock: Or just go to Queen radio and play music and leave the rest of us alone. But anyway, let’s get into today’s show. What does it mean to feel like a prisoner in your own body, to not love the body you’re in in the context of anti-Blackness and internalized white supremacy, while we as a culture publicly project messages of Blackness and self-love? The truth is that the journey of unpacking and discarding the influences of white supremacy and anti-Blackness is one that is a bit, complicated and takes meaningful self-work, reflection, and time from anti-fatness to anti-woman and even anti-queerness. There are several ways in which we engage in both external and internal threats to our community. Let’s get into it. So G, to jump start this conversation. What do you think are some of the examples in the culture of, like, internalized oppression? [00:17:26][59.2]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:17:27] Well, the obvious examples are Black people who support policies that are anti-Black. And we see a lot of that. We see the Kandace Owens of the world. And so that’s always in our face. And we often can point the finger at people because it is more obvious. But I think there are also other not so obvious ways that we that we internalize white supremacy. And so at first I want to like kind of just park the car and, you know, acknowledge that when I think about white supremacy, we acknowledge what that is. And that’s a hierarchy. And there’s a hierarchy of based on race. But the system of white supremacy is not just about whiteness, it’s about patriarchy. You know, it’s a it’s about power, capitalism. And so when we embrace things that are white, patriarchal, capitalistic in a way in which we put people down because they don’t fit certain ideals, that is to me internalized anti-Blackness. And I’ve experienced anti-Blackness in my life even when I didn’t even recognize it as that. And this is a show where we we are talking to the culture and we me and you, you know, we are very open and honest about our lives and our experiences. And for me, the most glaring example of anti-Blackness in my life has been my issue of colorism. We often bring up colorism in general, but I don’t think we really have truthful conversations about what that really looks like. And for me, I always had most of my friends were lighter skinned than me, and I’m not sure at what age I realized that I felt like I was treated differently or seen differently because I wasn’t their complexion. But that’s how I felt. And I remember I was swimming my grandparents pool. I got like a really bad sunburn. And my skin to this very day is very discolor in certain areas of my body. And my back had like a lot of discoloration. And a dermatologist had prescribed this like really strong cream. It was essentially like the equivalent to like a bleaching cream. And I was supposed to be using it on my back and I was using it on my face. And I had this goal that if I use it on my face, then I look lighter. And I was probably around 11, 12 years old at this time. And then throughout my teen years, I just remember not feeling as desirable as other guys. And even within the gay community, the Black gay community especially, I still I see the ways in which my light skinned friends, for example, get more attention. And I’ve gone to bars literally, and a guy has been all up in my friends face. And then when my friend rejects them, then I’m the on the on the second the second choice is like, oh hey, I didn’t see you over there, let me get your number. And I’m like, no, you didn’t pay me any mind before. And no, colorism is something it’s a very sensitive topic in our community because we have family who are of different hues. And so I know for me, speaking about has always been uncomfortable because I didn’t want my loved ones to feel like I look at them in a negative light is really about how I feel about myself. And I think that we internalize white supremacy in so many different ways, like how we value each other based on our skin color. And the truth is that being Black in America is hard. Being a dark skinned Black person is even harder, especially when you are already absorbing so much of the world about your identity and where you fit in, where you don’t fit. So that’s been something that’s really been difficult for me. But Anti-Blackness is going to show up in so many other different ways. It can be the way that I know when I go to I hate really bad customer service. And I’ve noticed if I go to it could be a restaurant, for example, or maybe like even a grocery store. And the way that a Black cashier will treat me versus a white customer is very different. The attitudes different. It’s like, why are you why you why am I being attacked with all this energy? I’m a customer. I’m a patron, just like any other person. I notice, that when there’s a white customer and this is a person of color, particularly a Black person, you know, their voice changes. They they are a little bit more nicer. They’re a little bit more understanding. I think that we should be mindful of how we how we show up in certain spaces, because sometimes we we do treat white people differently and we look at each other as as the enemy or, you know, or as competition. Any anything along those realms, I would consider that to be anti-Black, you know, to be a.. Black is to be to be anti-Black is to be anti-Libération. And so anything that looks like that is the opposite of liberation for Black and brown folk to me is is you internalizing your own white supremacy within. [00:22:38][311.0]

Shana Pinnock: [00:22:39] And so, you know, what’s funny is I think and we kind of touched on this at the top of the episode of, you know, there’s so many there’s so much intersectionality as it is as it relates to. As it relates to anti-Blackness and how it really can go into Atai anti-woman and anti-fatness, all of these things, so a perfect example would be for me, the story of Ma’khia Bryant, this young I believe she was 15, 16 year old girl who was in foster care, pulled out a knife because she was being attacked by seemingly some grown women who were coming after her. She pulls out a knife to essentially defend herself. The police come fires, I believe, three or four shots into MMa’Khia’s back. And I remember reading the comments on theGrio on the Shade Room, Baller Alert all of these different blogs and CNN and even and so many Black people who all of a sudden were were twisting and turning and finding ways for themselves to defend what essentially is anti-Blackness. To me, there is absolutely an opportunity for police officers because I’ve seen it. We’ve seen police officers take down white men with axes in their hands. We’ve seen police officers take- with no with no incident. No one’s harmed and no one’s hurt. We’ve seen police take down white people, white men with guns and firearms and all of these things. But here goes this little girl with a the equivalent of a steak knife trying to defend herself. And there was just no time. And look, she was about to stab someone else and all of these things and the comments of. Yeah, but like, do you see how big she is? Like, would you want some two hundred pound level? What does that she was a child, you know, and I found it so frustrating. And it’s interesting to see all of those all of that intersection of. How you don’t even realize that you’re you’re touting anti-Black rhetoric right now, you don’t even realize that if I were to go to Fox News, that’s what the that’s what they are saying. And you all know who they are. I think for me, too. And I’m so glad that you brought up being a kid and being being two chocolate babies growing up, especially here in New York. You hear a lot of really terrible things. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard, oh, you’re pretty for a dark skinned girl or even in terms of my dating life, it has been either. I have felt as though I was being chosen by light skinned men because they were really because I had some at the melanin, I had something that they did it. There have been dark skinned men that I’ve dated who have specifically told me that the reason why they were attracted to me is because essentially we were going to like rebel against white people for being too dark skinned people together. And really all I think of is it takes me back to my childhood where a family friend pretty much made the comment. It was a tar baby comment, essentially. And I remember being five or six years old and having my mother, she made me a bubble bath. It was great and it was wonderful. And sneaking to pour in bleach into my bathwater in an effort to lighten my skin like a five and a six year old understands that my dark skin, this this thing that just it’s it’s me, you know, that this dark skin of mine is ugly to other people. And I need to figure out a way to lighten it. I, I have talked about my grandmother a number of times on this show. I love my grandma. She is she is amazing. But unfortunately, as a Jamaican immigrant to the United States, she has a lot a lot of internalized white supremacy and respectability politics and all of that, too. And by that I mean my grandmother. I have broken my grandmother’s heart because I have locks I have I have broken my grandmother’s heart because I remember as a kid and I would go to Jamaica with my dad and I would come back and we would go visit my grandmother. And her first first statement was always a look at how Black you are like. It was an insult. And even now, I think she’s gotten better as she’s gotten older. My niece and my nephews, their mother is Puerto Rican and my grandmother made a comment a couple of years ago saying something about like how two of my my my niece and one of my nephews, who very much so look like their mother and they have a little looser curl pattern in all of these other things. And my grandmother retorted, oh, look at how they got the good hair. And the younger one, he his hair isn’t as good as theirs. Graham, you know, and explaining to her just how harmful and hurtful that is, especially for my youngest nephew, who he does, he looks like the Blackest one of the group like he you could tell he’s not he don’t look mixed with nothing that looks like straight Negro. And then is it and I’m like, I’m not I’m not OK with this little boy growing up thinking that his dark skin and the hair that grows out of his head, that beautiful, bushy head of his, is somehow wrong or ugly or anything like that. And for that to come internally, for that to come from your own family is gross. And it’s and it’s it it hurts. I’m trying not to choke up a little bit here because it’s it’s really bringing up a lot of old trauma and it’s so crazy because I had it wasn’t until I got to Spellman college that I had to acknowledge how much. That I had to acknowledge how much internalized white supremacy that I was just keeping in, right. And it comes and it came from not just from white people, but it came from my my grandmother, too. So case in point, if you were to look at my dating history, about 90 to 92 percent of my dating history has predominantly been been very, very, very light bright Black men. I mean, just bright. And it was always I never wanted to admit it, but in the back of my head, it was always because if I had a daughter with this man, at least I know my daughter wasn’t going to have as dark as a skin tone as I did. And she wouldn’t have to hear the terrible things that people say about dark skinned girls and and all of those things. She’s already going to be a Black woman. She already has the deck stacked against her. I don’t need her to be a dark skinned Black woman. Do you know how hard like how hateful that is? How much like what? It’s it’s nuts. And even I’m going to I’m going to take a very. I got it. I got to I got to go ahead and pull over and park because this is actually getting a little bit emotional for me. So we’re going to we’re going to lighten things up a little bit. I’m going to give you some levity. Here’s another example of white supremacy Gerren. I cannot for the life of me, take a single shower bath and nothing without thinking of white people. Now, I’ll explain why. Because every couple of years, just recently this year, just a few weeks ago, white people loved to get up on on Twitter and Facebook and all of these public platforms and let us know how filthy they are. Right. So let us know how to spell filthy so I literally cannot get in the shower and wash my legs and, like, lift my foot up to scrub, like, to scrub the bottom of my feet because that my first thought is and what people don’t do is they just let the waters dry. You hope the soap comes from the top of your head, like here goes your shampoo. And it’s just it’s here we are the top of my body. And the soap is just going to what you are not a car and this is not a car wash. And even then they get the tires too what is wrong with y’all? Huh. [00:31:10][511.3]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:31:11] What about that is hilarious. But it’s true. I mean, I wouldn’t think about anti-Black this about when you shower, but it makes so much sense, you know, so much of what white people do and don’t do it trickles down to how we are as a society. We feel like. I can’t do this because we’ve become so shameful of doing things that are just not that come naturally to us, like being really well-bathed, [00:31:38][27.4]

Shana Pinnock: [00:31:39] don’t even don’t even want to eat chicken in public. I just what? [00:31:42][2.8]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:31:45] I don’t eat chicken, but when I did, I used to tear some chicken up. But but to your point, I really got I got emotional when you were sharing your personal story, because I think that your story is like my story and my story is like so many other people’s stories in our community. And we just don’t create the space to allow us to express that because we fear being judged. I had this really bad breakup. I don’t know if I can call it a breakup because it was a situationship and not really a relationship, but it was in my early 20s and it took me years to get over this bad breakup because this guy just wouldn’t want he just wouldn’t completely choose me. You know, it was like I was good enough to have sex with I was good enough to go out and have a good time with. But ultimately what I wanted, which was an actual committed relationship, he just could not provide that. And I struggle to figure out why I couldn’t let him go. It wasn’t the first breakup in my life. He wasn’t like, you know, the most. He wasn’t like, you know, the second coming of Jesus Christ. He was attractive. But like I mean, it was like he had this hold on me. And it actually took me like years after that, going through therapy in recent years, realizing that my attachment to this man I couldn’t get over with was because he was light skinned and because the idea that this attractive light skinned man wanted me and in whatever way I was willing to accept whatever he was able to offer me, because it made me feel valued and I put so much value in how he looked, even though even if it wasn’t necessarily an intentional decision in that moment, when I’m looking back on that time, I’m like, well, he didn’t treat you right. He lied. He was he was a player. And you kept going back time and time again. Why? And my why became it was about desirability. And it goes back to how I felt, how I have often felt about my skin tone. And these are things that you don’t just get over overnight. These are things that start really young, as we’ve expressed earlier in the show, and then it morphs into something else. And then you become an adult who has these ingrained standards or these ingrained internal self-shame that you don’t you don’t know what to do with it, which is why I always say therapy is really important, because it’s really important for us to be able to unpack all of this, this trauma. And, you know, now I’m able to move in my dating life and just in my life in general, you know, loving the skin that I’m in. And it wasn’t easy. You know, I think I watch often. I used to watch a lot of interviews of confidence, celebrities and like, how do you get your confidence and something that always came up. And then Tiffany Haddish recently did the interview and said this. You look in the mirror and, you know, just just tell yourself that you’re beautiful. Tell yourself that you are attractive. Tell yourself that you’re smart. Tell yourself that you’re deserving of that job with that good salary, whatever your heart desires, you deserve that. And that’s been really helpful for me to kind of overcome my insecurities around my skin color or my my my queerness being Black and being queer often in the past has been something that was like, you know, you can’t be both know white being queer for the white people. Even when I came out to my parents, my my dad had basically said, you know, you can be a lot of things, but you can’t be gay because the odds are stacked against you. But essentially, he was unfortunately in that moment, he was teaching me to self hate, which is anti-Black. And I can be my full Black self, my full Black queer self. And I can be both feminine and masculine. And I can love all of those things about me. And I think that is really important for us as a community to figure out ways for us to dismantle the ways in which white supremacy is has such a grip on us as as as a society. And the only way that we can undo that is by correcting it with self-love and not just self-love, but loving, actually loving each other and not pitting one against the other. No, not being a Nicki Minaj, calling out another Black woman on social media, calling us, calling somebody Uncle Tomiana, that is anti-Black. We have to speak. Love and everything that we do, because for so many for centuries, we’ve been told that we are not even human, let alone deserving of the joy and self-confidence. [00:36:40][294.7]

Shana Pinnock: [00:36:41] Precisely. Well, this has been always a dope conversation. And as we talked about today, there’s a lot so much stacked against us. But our inherent beauty, our talent, our resilience is a birthright that ultimately cannot be stopped, no matter how hard some may try to hold your head up so we can see you for all that you are. [00:37:02][21.5]

Gerren Keith Gaynor: [00:37:10] We want to remind our listeners to please support your local Black businesses and donate to your local organizations and religious institutions, the Black business that we will highlight this week is Uncle Bobbies’s coffee and books. Uncle Bobbies’s Coffee and Books was founded in the Germantown neighborhood of Philadelphia in Twenty Seventeen by Marc Lamont Hill, who is a friend of the Grio. Uncle Bobby’s was created as a space to provide underserved communities with access to books and a space where everyone feels valued. To learn more about how you can support or pick up some cool merch, head to w w w dot Uncle Bobbie’s dot com. That’s BOBBIES.Com The Grio has published a list of 50 plus Black businesses to support during the coronavirus pandemic. If you would like your business featured, email us at info at theGrio.com. That’s G.R. I o dotcom. Thank you for listening to Dear Culture. If you like what you heard, please give us a five star review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcast and share it with everyone you know. [00:38:11][60.4]

Shana Pinnock: [00:38:12] And please email all questions, suggestions and compliments. We love those to podcast at theGrio.com. The Dear Culture Podcast is brought to you by the Grio and Executive produced by Blue Telusma and co-produced by Taji Senior and Abdul Quddus. [00:38:12][0.0]

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