AUP EP. 23 Randy Huggins: Black Mafia Family
Cortney Wills: [00:00:04] Hello and welcome to Acting Up, the podcast that dives deep into the world of TV and film that highlights our people, our culture and our stories. I’m your host, Cortney Wills, Entertainment Director at theGrio. And this week we’re speaking to Randy Huggins, co-creator and showrunner of STARZ’s latest hit drama series, BMF. The serious tells the real life story of Demetrius “Big Meech” Flannery and his brother, Terry “Southwest T” F lannery, these two brothers who gosh like, made a huge impact in Detroit because they established BMF, the Black Mafia Family. They are both still alive and Big Meech’s real life son, Demetrius “Little Mitch” Flannery Jr. portrays him in this show, which is pretty wild. This kid had never acted before, and he’s in this starring role alongside some really talented people and telling a story that is really important to the culture, but also really important to his family. Randy Huggins comes from us from the Power universe with Curtis Jackson, aka 50 Cent A.K.A. He keeps making really cool TV and saying really dumb shit on social media, so we’re always pretty frustrated with 50. But one thing is undeniable, and that is this show is really good. Several episodes were directed by Tasha Smith, who is also an executive producer on the series, and it’s so amazing to see what she’s been able to do with this story. As a Black woman director, as an actor who you know we’ve all loved for years, seeing her really flex in this way has been really cool, and I wanted to know from Randy why she was the right pick. I also wanted to know how he deals with some of what 50 says on social, especially when it comes to these shows and what went into telling this real life story about two people from Detroit, which is also Randy’s hometown. BMF is one of my favorite new shows this year, if not my favorite. I think it’s really well done. It’s not what I expected it to be. It has a fantastic cast who really showed up as these characters. Russell Hornsby is in it. Demetrius “Little Mitch” Flannery Jr. makes his acting debut in the starring role, and it’s great Di Vinc’s really good in this, and I haven’t seen a villain that actually scared me, like really made me nervous the way that Lamar does on BMF since Michael K. Williams’s role as Omar on The Wire. The show actually reminds me a little bit of The Wire in a lot of ways, actually, and mainly because I don’t know. I mean, it’s kind of shot like The Wire. It’s also just feels extremely realistic, and these characters are developed, and I’m invested in the story from jump, and there’s a lot more going on than what you might expect on the surface. You know, the story of these two drug kingpins, it’s not all drugs and violence and sex. I mean, there’s some of that and it’s entertaining, but it is a lot deeper than that. I think this is a story about family, and it’s a story about what happens when the rules of the game are not the same for everybody. It’s really good. So excited to talk to Randy all about it. Randy Huggins has done a lot of stuff in his career. He was a producer on CBS’s Criminal Minds, producer on Prime Suspect, the unit he co-executive produced Star, which I really liked Star. That was like a show that people talked a lot of smack about, but I enjoyed it. He was an EP on rebel and co-executive produced a season of Power. He’s also written for a ton of shows, including Power Book II: Ghost, Star, Quad, Criminal Minds, The Unit, Crash and The Shield. So he’s been in this game for a long time, but now he is really in the driver’s seat on this series that is centered on two real people from his hometown of Detroit. Hey, Randy, I can’t even speak because I’m so excited to talk to you. BMF has by far been the best thing that I’ve seen in this new fall lineup. Like, I ate it up. [00:04:28][264.5]
Randy Huggins: [00:04:28] How much did you see? [00:04:29][0.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:04:30] All of it. [00:04:30][0.4]
Randy Huggins: [00:04:31] Oh, word. That’s what’s up. [00:04:32][1.2]
Cortney Wills: [00:04:32] They sent me, I don’t know, five or six. [00:04:34][1.5]
Randy Huggins: [00:04:34] You can’t give them all of it. You can’t. But like, they were like, have they seen it they’ve seen that hopefully don’t leak it or spoil it. But yeah, I just hope people are excited. I mean, like this has been a long, arduous journey for myself, specifically for 50 Cent who started this five years ago. But I’ve been on this for over three. You know what I mean? So to be here talking to you today is just fantastic. I mean, I could not be more happy. [00:05:00][25.5]
Cortney Wills: [00:05:00] BMF is so well done across the board, from the casting to the performances. My Detroit folks are telling me, you did Detroit proud. I know that that is your hometown, but they are cosigning that it is legit. Tasha Smith coming in as an EP and then directing some really impressive episodes, that is just kind of amazing to see a Black woman helm a show like this. Then you’ve got Lil Meech playing his own father, someone who was not an actor coming into this. [00:05:30][30.1]
Randy Huggins: [00:05:31] Yeah. He is now. [00:05:31][0.0]
[00:05:33] He absolutely is, I mean, my oh my, where do we even start all of that go. [00:05:36][3.6]
Randy Huggins: [00:05:38] OK, first, let me start with 50. Yeah. So here’s how it came about. So and I think this is important to realize because I think this is a trickle down effect in our show. OK, so 50 had the right. Right now I’m working on Power and he tells me about it. So I just know he’s about to say, so you want to do it because I’m actually about to leave Power when he tells me and I’m like, Wow, award wow. God is good. What kind of world is aligning? Oh my God. And he’s like, Yeah, I got these other two writers and they all do. And I’m like, OK. So I had to pick my jaw back up and I’m like, Let’s go, is go. So I got to do my thing. I’m going to star. I’m on star for like two seasons. [00:06:14][36.1]
Cortney Wills: [00:06:15] I love star, by the way. I thought was my show essence up. [00:06:17][2.9]
Randy Huggins: [00:06:18] I love Lee and I love care. So you know what was interesting was I got to star in a 50 cause and it’s like, you wanted to be a man. I’m like, Yes. So, you know, he puts me on the phone with me. And you know, I know we’re talking every day, meet tonight because, you know, you can only talk ten minutes at a time. So then I got to see him in prison three or four times. And when you got to prison, you can’t take a pen or a pad. So he’s talking to me for six hours and I got to run to my car and scribble out everything that I can remember that we’ve got a great talk about how did we make this show? I mean, and I’m talking about the arduous journey that I have been on to bring this. And when you say words like, I love that and blah blah blah, that’s why it fills my heart. Because me getting I’m telling the story about two dudes about their life and both of them are locked up. I can only talk to him ten minutes a day at a time. You know what I mean? When I go see him, I can’t take a pen or a pad. [00:07:13][55.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:07:14] You can’t record audio either? [00:07:15][1.3]
Randy Huggins: [00:07:16] No, you can’t take anything. [00:07:17][1.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:07:19] Oh my gosh, that’s wild. [00:07:20][1.3]
Randy Huggins: [00:07:21] Yes. And so and then not to mention in the midst of me getting the story, he gets thrown in the hole for like months. So now I can’t talk to him. But now I’ve sould STARZ and Lionsgate on an idea. So I’ve got deadlines to meet, but I don’t have my source. You know what I mean? So then when he finally resurfaced and we reconnected, I’m like, Darrell, listen, I need somebody because, you know, I mean, you’re locked up, you can’t be terminated. That’s the unfortunate thing about being in the system. You don’t have any freedom. So the thing that he did was he was like, OK, I’m going to turn you on to my sister, Nicole Flannery and my best friend Roland West. And the other big thing that Meech said when he started, he said, I want to tell the origin story. It was like, everybody know about these dudes from Detroit. They went to Atlanta and start getting money. But I want to tell the origin story on why we started, why we got into this. So that’s why for me, he was speaking my language because that meant telling more Detroit. You know what I mean? I mean, I know about the drug situation, but I know my city. You know what I mean? So it was interesting. So I called Nicole to talk to her. If you know the history of this story. You know what I mean? Terry was talking to her one night off. So she’s I don’t talk on the phone. So then I had to fly to Detroit to meet Nicole and Roland, who are looking at me like, Who is this dude? I don’t know, because everybody’s been trying to tell her story. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it’s like on somebody else trying to do it. So finally, you know, I shared enough information to let them know that I was for real and they star opening up to me and we start building the show. But then what was really interesting is, you know, the powers that be as STARZ left. So it was a new regime coming in and they had bought myself the idea and they had ordered the writers well. But I had to pitch to the new regime now i had to pitch to like, you know, so it was just it’s been a long journey getting here. And then they greenlit the show and, you know, and they greenlit December and January at the height of the pandemic. They greenlit Black Mafia Family, to shoot. This is before vaccines. Yeah, you know what I mean? This is getting tested three times a week. You know, wearing a mask, you cannot leave your house to go, even get dinner everything and like, come on, man, like in the be here and to have this and to have the public like, yeah, it’s a blessing in its own right. You know what I mean? Like I said, I was a 50s first hire like Tasha wasn’t the first person we looked at to be the director. Little Meech, which wasn’t the first person we looked at to play Little Meech, but all of us came together at the right time, and I feel like anybody that’s on this show is meant to be here for a purpose. [00:10:14][172.8]
Cortney Wills: [00:10:15] I mean, talk about an uphill battle to get something done like every obstacle imaginable. Everyone sounds like you had to kind of jump over it. What do you think made them say yes to you? Was it 50? Was it getting to know you? [00:10:27][12.7]
Randy Huggins: [00:10:28] I think the biggest connection is that I’m a Detroiter. And I’m a Detroiter who was able to connect. When he says we used to be a Saint Cecilia. I used to be at Saint Cecilia, you know what I mean. I was watching basketball. They was with the drugs, but I was in the same gym when he says we was at the Fresh Fest. I was there. You know, I was everywhere. And then one of the biggest connections we start talking about when I think this is, I was in jail when he said this and we started talking about it. He started asking me, like where I grew up or whatever. And I said I grew up on Eight Mile Northwest Detroit and then from Southwest. And he was like, oh yeah, I know about Eight Mile, a name like some people in my neighborhood. And he named the guy who stayed directly behind my house and I’m in Oregon in jail, talking to somebody that I haven’t spent a lot of time with. And he. And it was just it was a love fest. Yeah, I really I don’t like to bring this up, but it’s true. My middle name is Demetrius. You know what I mean? Man, number two on my show, her name is Terri. You know what I mean? Like, it’s like, is so much bigger than me, bigger than us. It’s just like this was meant to be told. And I think it was meant to be told in this way because it’s a bigger story than a drug story. And I think when people come at it from that direction, they’re missing the whole thing. Because this is a show about family, it’s a show about brotherhood, it’s about love, you know what I mean? And those same values that they were fed in their family, no matter how, you know, disadvantage they were financially, they were still giving those lessons and those were the lessons that they, you know, poured into their criminal family. You know what I mean, which is why people love them the way they do. [00:12:07][99.2]
Cortney Wills: [00:12:07] That’s weird, though I’m not going to lie. OK, so one of our writers at theGrio, she’s from Detroit. She did a whole thesis on some really like closely related topics subjects. She knows Meech. They were pen pals or have been, I don’t know, in prison, like wrote letters, he wrote back. And she’s like, Cortney. You know, obviously she’s interested. She studied it. It’s kind of an expert at it. Yeah, but also, I’m kind of a fan. And that sounds weird to say. I’m a fan of a drug dealer, but she’s not the only one like. What what do you think accounts the most for their actual impact? [00:12:45][37.2]
Randy Huggins: [00:12:45] Specifically having gotten to know both brothers, right? Meech is the most charismatic person like he, first of all. He’s very funny. You know what I mean which you which I did not expect. Like, he just we joke we zing each other all the time. But his charisma just pops off. I mean, and for him to be actually him and Terry to be high school dropout? You know what I mean? They’re probably two of the smartest cats that I know. You know what I mean? Now, I think very early on, he knew probably like, I mean, you got to realize to the school system and Detroit in the 1980s was really bad. You know what I mean, really? I mean, I’m not sure is great now, but it was really bad then. And I think at an early age, he realized that he was going to be somebody. It clearly wasn’t going to be in the classroom. You know what I mean? And you know, I think the biggest thing was he realized he wanted to save his family. I mean, they really, really, really poor. You know what I mean? So he wanted to save his family, and I think he got involved in something and then he didn’t just want to do this thing. He was like, We want to do this. I’m going to be the best that I can be, you know what I mean? So it’s sort of like I really look at like, you know, when you think of the titans of America or the men who built America and they talk about Rockefeller, they talk about Kennedy and the dirt did they did before they made their transition? I think the only thing they just weren’t able to make the transition, but they were on their way. You know what I mean? So I think that’s the most fascinating thing about Meech. And for Terry. I mean, he’s like not as charismatic as his brother, but he’s funny. He’s very funny, and he’s quick with it. You know what I mean? And he’s just, I dare I use the word intellectual, but I think they’re both intellectual. You know what I mean in their own regard? [00:14:36][111.0]
Cortney Wills: [00:14:36] Yeah. Why Tasha Smith? I mean, how did you know that she could do this and she did this. I’m so impressed with the work that I’ve seen from her. It’s mind blowing. [00:14:48][11.7]
Randy Huggins: [00:14:49] Yeah, she did it. She did the doggone bank. I mean, listen, I’ve known Tasha for years. Like, we worked together on Star. You know what I mean? So. I know she could do it. You know what I mean? And I knew how talented she was. And I think if anybody had reservations, it was like, well, she hasn’t done this before. Or, they were like, well, you know, Tasha’s high energy and I’m like, I’m high energy too. You know what I mean? And she’s a Pisces. I’m like, I’m a Pisces, too. So I think and the box that someone may have been able to check off as a negative with a positive for me. You know what I mean? And then more than anything, she and I spoke the same language. I mean, we were we’re really trying to elevate the landscape of TV with the series. That is my goal to elevate and just tell better stories. And I’m not knocking anybody’s story or anybody’s whatever, but I just really want it from a story standpoint, from a cinematic standpoint, from a production design standpoint, from a costume standpoint, I really wanted to lift up. And Tasha spoke that language back to me as she told me she wanted to tell a more romanticized version of an organized crime TV show. And so she took drug out of it seems like they don’t say that when they say the mafia. She’s like, These guys are the mafia. They were that smart as she wanted to elevate them in that regard. So we very much spoke the same love language when it came to this project. [00:16:25][95.7]
Cortney Wills: [00:16:25] I’m glad that you said that because honestly, I mean, that is literally the point of Acting Up. I mean, it’s in the title. It’s like we’re talking to the people who are elevating the conversation ones we’ve never had before. And ones we’ve had 100 times and I did, being honest, have reservations going into a show, OK? Again, the hood drug dealers, crime, killing each other like especially especially in the wake of all of these super recent highly publicized deaths at the hands of narcotics and fentanyl. It felt a little bit like, I don’t know if I’m in the mood for this, and it was not that. This show absolutely elevates the story that we’re getting told, and I think that that is so important. And I think, you know, it’s a safe space. This is way better than Power. Like overall, we love Power. It’s a different thing [00:17:18][52.9]
Randy Huggins: [00:17:19] It’ s different and we’re different. [00:17:20][0.7]
Cortney Wills: [00:17:20] We’re it’s a different thing. But when I’m talking about art and when I’m talking about overall execution, there are tons of things that Power does really well 100 percent. But this show is not that either. It does so many things so well. Like I said, the writing, the cast, I mean, the performances from top to bottom were really impressive. I remember noting, and it was it was several weeks before Michael K. Williams died. I’m watching BMF bingeing BMF and I’m saying I have not been this scared of a villain since Omar! [00:17:55][34.6]
Randy Huggins: [00:17:57] My favorite character! [00:17:57][0.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:17:58] It felt like that. I mean, it felt scary like that. It felt like, damn, this is feel he is grimy, like it just felt threatening, you know? And I felt like, Oh shit, he’s coming, you know, like that. Like, oh my– you can see it. We did. And there were several times when I first screened the series that I was called back to feelings that I had when I watched The Wire, and I don’t think that we’ve seen that since. And you can I I would guess that maybe that was a big inspiration for the execution of the show. Am I right? [00:18:30][32.2]
Randy Huggins: [00:18:31] Absolutely. I mean, I love The Wire and I love Michael K. You know what I mean? So, yeah, that was an inspiration. I think a big, a big inspiration for me also was Narcos. You know what I mean? The Netflix series? Because what they did, first of all, my inspiration, they took it from a cop standpoint. The cop is telling you how he track down. So I was like, damn, what if you looked at it from a from a from a drug dealer standpoint? So our show allows you to get into the mind of this 17 year old who really, really did change the world. I mean, like, you know what I mean? I’m not saying for the for the good, but I’m saying we get to understand how his mind, thinks we get to understand. So that’s what I was going for with that. And then the other thing that I think Narcos Mexico did really well was that they tell the story of Kiki Camarena and they will put footage in, footage that I remember watching of Walter Cronkite when he went missing. And so when you’re watching the show, I remember this. And it just sucks you in. So I try to. That’s why I put Coming Young’s inaugural address in there. That’s why I put. I’m just trying to put things to just bring people in on our show. So it really is. I can’t listen Cortney. I can’t tell you how much it means to me to hear you say those words because those words are intentions. You know what I mean by my person and I went to battle with the. I had the best partnership in the world with 50 Cent. [00:20:02][90.7]
Cortney Wills: [00:20:02] OK, can we pause because we’re running out of time? But I have to ask you. [00:20:05][3.8]
Randy Huggins: [00:20:06] Okay, go ahead, go ahead. [00:20:06][0.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:20:06] Like, I’m torn. About 50, 50 got me messed up in the head because I see work like this and I applaud it and I’m so proud of him and I like the content. And then, you know, he does some 50 Cent shit and I’m mad and like, hurt. How do you deal with that? [00:20:24][17.3]
Randy Huggins: [00:20:24] You don’t. Don’t even question it. Don’t look, it’s not. I have to look at my relationship with him. You know what I mean? Now look, you have friends. You have friends, right? You have friends. And there are some friends you can tell. Well, I’m not sure I agree with this or I’m not sure I agree with that. But that’s not my relationship with him. My relationship with him is a partnership. You know what I mean? And what’s dope, it’s so dope because we both respect each other. You know what I mean? Like, he gives me the freedom to do whatever I give him, the freedom to do whatever he’s doing. But when I need him, you know what I mean? He comes and he’s like, What you need? And he’s there for me, right there, wherever. No matter who it is, I need you to talk to an actor to network the studio, whoever he’s like. I got it. And when he needs me, I need you to write up something. I need you to do this. I got him. So that partnership works. And I think as long as we continue to work together will because I’m not a me guy, I’m a team guy. You know what I mean? And 50 is on my team, you know what I mean? And Tasha, you know what I mean? And like when you put all of these pieces together and you whip it up, you got a real good gumbo. You know, I mean, if you if you got too much green peppers or celary or too much meat you got, what is this? But when you put the right amount and you stay real good, you get BMF. [00:21:50][85.8]
Cortney Wills: [00:21:51] Oh my gosh, thank you for answering that. Lastly, I mean, gosh, Lil Meech playing his dad number one? That is just so nuts that it could happen that he did such a good job not being an actor. I mean, did he even? Does he know his dad? Like, I don’t know the chronology of how long Meech has been locked up. [00:22:10][18.2]
Randy Huggins: [00:22:10] Yes, his dad went away when he was like five or six, so he knows them as a maybe he knows them. But I mean, that’s I mean, he’s twenty one. So that’s sixteen years of not. I mean, they talk on the phone every day, but I’m saying, yeah, that’s still different. But I think the thing about Little Meech again, going back to my partnership, 50 saw I didn’t see it, 50 saw it and 50 was like it’s him, I’m like and I’m like, not for my, no, not for this show. I’m trying to do too many big things and he’s like Randy, I’m telling you, and it’s him and he. And then they had me go see him, and I was like, he’s doing it. But no. And then I saw him do a chemistry read with da Vinci. When he did the chemistry, read with da Vinci. I was like, You know what? His inexperience can play his vulnerabilities to make the audience connect more with him. And then I signed up and I went to the network and I’m like, I’m on board. Its him? Its him? Its him? You know what I mean? And then we got into Atlanta and we cut his hair, and that’s what it got before my eyes. He morphed into Meech and that was like, you’re your dad, period. You know what I mean? Now, what was interesting about my relationship with a little meat is that I’m not sure how much you follow sports, but it was a quarterback, really dynamic quarterback right now. His name is Lamar Jackson, right? And when he came out of college, they were like, He can’t throw, he can’t do this. Can’t do that. Why would anybody draft? So there’s this team Baltimore Ravens drafted him and the coach didn’t really want to draft him, but then you got him and then you just got to make play to that player’s strengths. So what I had to do is I had to stop saying what we couldn’t do and then had to look at what he could do. You know what I mean? That meant maybe a little more hand-holding is the wrong word, but coming to him before talking to him about my intentions on lighting the scene or where the beats or whatever and what you want out of life is you want when you start there, that’s when we start. By the end of the season, he was coming to me telling me what the scene was and where the beats were. And they weren’t even beads that was in there. And I was like, Yeah, that’s what I meant. Yeah, me, that’s the goal. And to me, what better example is there of the American dream team that Meech and Terry are out for a slice of the American dream this dude, regardless of what you think of what he did, he did it, but he did it and he gave this his son. This opportunity, this was not given to him. This was an opportunity that he embraced that he knocked out of the park, took it and ran with it. And now he’s got other shows. He’s had a role on. Euphoria. Like now, he has a whole career. Talk about the American dream. What more is there of the American dream than that? I mean, whatever you think about him, that is the American dream to afford your child a better life thing you had. Come on. I mean, that’s BMF. [00:24:58][168.3]
Cortney Wills: [00:25:00] And not the dream he planned to give him, but a dream nonetheless. [00:25:03][2.8]
Randy Huggins: [00:25:04] Agree. I mean, like he created BMF Entertainment and he put a billboard. The world is ours now BMF and L.A. It’s on the side of a building. It’s so like you talk about the parallels in the maturation. I mean, like of this young man and I was telling him BMF entertainment may be you. It may be your company, your company may be a movie company. And when your dad gets out and you may hire your dad to be like, I’m like, That is what we are about. We are about progression. And yes, people did whatever they had to do given the circumstances that they were handed. You know what I mean? But I think just look at how many people this series hire in Atlanta I wanted to be in Detroit because that’s my hometown. We are over 300 people have a job and hopefully we have jobs for years to come because of this. [00:25:53][49.2]
Cortney Wills: [00:25:53] Why Atlanta? Why not Detroit? I was going to ask you that because [00:25:56][2.6]
Randy Huggins: [00:25:57] Michigan lost their tax incentive and economically, it didn’t make sense. So ultimately, they wind up in Atlanta, you know what I mean? It’s only a little bit, and I just got off the phone speaking with this guy from the Detroit News and he was like, Man, it looks so Detroit outside of a couple of places. What do you like? We’ll have heels like that. I’m like, I couldn’t do anything about that. But outside of that, my mother watched this and I said, I wish she said it somewhere on the east side. I’m like, Not. You know, I mean, she’d been there whole like seven years. So I am a real Detroit. And I was able and even when I couldn’t get that Detroit, I grounded it with the music. You know what I mean with techno like people like, I’m trying to give a history lesson about Black culture, and I hope we can do this along our journey because people hear EDM and in Europe, I’m like, No do techno Detroit Bellville three Derek May, Kevin Cassandras and one Adkins. I’m like, That’s where that’s coming from. So yeah, [00:26:58][61.1]
Cortney Wills: [00:26:59] I could talk to you forever. This cannot be the last time we talk about this. We are just getting started. [00:27:03][4.0]
Randy Huggins: [00:27:03] Oh, no problem, you really got me. Like, Let’s meet up later in the season. Have you already seen it. But it’s about to be some bombs, like when we drop some of those big names like, I mean, like, you know, the Pastor Swift role was written for 50 Cent. [00:27:17][13.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:27:17] Oh no way. [00:27:18][0.6]
Randy Huggins: [00:27:18] I mean, that was written for 50 and 50 was like nah I think I know somebody who can do it better. It was [00:27:23][4.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:27:23] good. All of it was good. This was a good show. I’m grateful for it. I want to talk about it more because it is so deep and so layered. But thank you so much for your candor today, and thanks for being a guest on Acting Up. [00:27:35][11.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:27:38] Thank you for listening to Acting Up. If you like what you heard, please give us a five star review and subscribe to the show wherever you listen to your podcast and share it with everyone you know. Please email all questions, comments and suggestions to podcasts at theGrio.com. Acting Up is brought to you by theGrio and executive produced by Cortney Wills and produced by Cameron Blackwell. For more with me and Acting Up, check us out on Instagram @ActingUp.Pod. [00:27:38][0.0]
