Dear Culture

Kier Gaines: Sharing therapy with the culture

Episode 39
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Kier Gaines is a husband, father, therapist, and social media favorite who is introducing therapy to the masses. After going viral in 2020, Kier now uses his platform to reach people who may have shied away from getting vulnerable and prioritizing their mental health. He’s raw, honest, and shares with Panama Jackson that he doesn’t always get it right, and you won’t either and that’s ok!

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Panama Jackson [00:00:00] You are now listening to theGrio’s Black Podcast Network Black Culture Amplified? What’s going on, everybody? Welcome back to Dear Culture, the podcast for BI at about Black culture, where we highlight people, places, things. We get into the nouns here of Blackness. And today I’m joined by a very special guest, a person I know personally, a family friend, but a person who does a lot of really, really good and important work in his found a way to successfully and effectively merge the worlds of social media therapy. Affirmation. You know, like there’s a lot of people who spend a lot of time online who tell you what to do or tell you what you can’t do. But this is somebody who has the skills, knowledge and training to actually be bringing these things to you in a way that’s very useful.

Kier Gaines [00:00:52] This most affirmation go like this I am doing what is right for me. It’s okay, as some people don’t agree with or support my choices. Three things to know if you want real change in your life. One The stages and a perfect world. We think it, we do it. But that isn’t anybody’s reality all the time, not in real life.

Panama Jackson [00:01:12] I can say personally that I am somebody who watches your videos. I listen to the affirmations. I ain’t going say I put them all in work. I ain’t gonna say affect the employee at all. Sometimes I made them like thing and now I know better. I just got to do better. But I’m working on that. So if everybody will please put the digital virtual hands together for my guest today, Mr. Kier Gaines, who is a licensed therapist. He the husband, a father. All around good guy and person who seems like your mission is to make the world a better place. So how you doing today, brother?

Kier Gaines [00:01:49] I’m good, man. These intros, get more progressively, more impressive the longer I do this. At first it’s like, Hey, this is a guy who had a viral video, Kier Gaines. And now is like all of these explanations of these different ways I show up. But pleasure to be here, brother, and pleasure to talk to you, man. We friends in real life. I don’t usually get that opportunity.

Panama Jackson [00:02:08] Yeah, it is cool to be able to do stuff with people that you know who are genuinely doing things like, you know, when you know people, you, you get together, you kind of, you know, shoot the breeze, you take it, whatever. But when you get a chance to work together in professional capacities on things, when people are genuinely doing stuff, I always think that’s really cool. And you just said something like, Already we get in there like you, you show up. That’s a term that I really love because like half of being a parent and a father is showing up and the other half of it is showing up intentionally, like doing all the stuff with intention. And I think that’s where most of the things that I get from you have been so helpful and so interesting. Like your show up game seems to be top notch. So I kind of want to talk about how we got here to begin with. Like you’re you would do a very important things, very important work. But how did you get on this path to begin with? I don’t actually know your your story, like the backstory, how we even got here. I’ve known you for years, obviously, but and I know about the influencer, content creator part. But how do we even get here to the place where what you do on social media is what you do?

Kier Gaines [00:03:18] May. That’s a good question, Ambra. So you’re so damn good with words. Honestly, I think it’s a lot of different things that happened. I grew up in Washington, D.C., I grew up southeast. And the D.C. that that exists now is a very gentrified, very palatable, you know, place where you can go get coffee, a Danish muffin in the chopper, croissant, all within the same one block radius. But the D.C. I grew up here was very violent, culturally tumultuous. It just wasn’t a healthy environment to raise a young boy or anybody, for that matter. And I looked around me, and while the hood does have this sexiness, you know, like it’s this grittiness, you get to earn every inch of your story. You get to have these war wounds that you talk about. You live on the edge. I just felt like it was more. I always felt like it was more I never felt like I represented who I was. And the more I met people from different countries and from different neighborhoods. Because when you from southeast, you don’t really move too far outside of your neighbor. Just up the five miles up the road is completely foreign to you. And I saw what I didn’t want to be, and I started moving in the opposite direction. I saw men who use their neighborhood as a means to just collect wolf for themselves and neglect everybody else. I didn’t want to be that. I saw men who had children and and it was difficult for them to connect to those kids. I didn’t want to be that. I saw men who were obsessed with money. Everything else fell by the wayside. I want to be that. So I think he’s strategically doing things to move in the opposite direction. You suddenly get a job, you know what I’m saying. Ya’ll going to the pool? Ya’ll about to fight them dudes from the other neighborhood? I think I’m a stay back today. It’s just follow your heart. Being comfortable with being a little bit different and growing and maturing into that mindset, for sure.

Panama Jackson [00:05:05] So what sets you on the path towards therapy? Because everything you said makes sense to me. I can understand. One hundred precent. Like I see what you doing. I don’t want that. I see where that goes. But therapy is a very intentional way of like going the other direction. You know, you can, you can go get a degree in anything, but you were like, Nah, I’m I’m focusing on the mind and the mental part of all of this. So what pushed you in that direction?

Kier Gaines [00:05:32] Becoming a Father. Getting my girlfriend at the time pregnant and not really know what was next. I felt like I didn’t have a great relationship with impending fatherhood. I felt like it was robbing things from me. I didn’t want to go throughout the rest of my life blaming this woman in this child for things inside of me that I was conflicted with. You know, the old saying, you know, you bleed on people who didn’t even cut you unless you healed those wounds. And I didn’t know that therapy was going to be effective. I didn’t know anybody who had been to therapy before, but I knew that I needed help. And I knew that I wasn’t too proud to reach out and say, hey, I went as far as I can go on my own. I’m a need a hand. And luckily for me and I always say my first therapy session wasn’t even that good. I don’t think it was profoundly effective, but I do feel like I took one or two things out of that that I was able to apply to my life and keep moving in a forward direction. Bruh, we can sit here and we can we can have a conversation about fatherhood or we can have a conversation about fatherhood. Like the identity. Bruh, like your identity is is stripped from you. The thing that you thought that you were, the autonomy that you have to make decisions in your own life is gone. I found myself in this windfall where it’s like you lean too far back in the chair and you pass the point of no return. And you know you about to fall. So you just start grasping at things in the end to try to save you. But there’s nothing there. And your ass is about to hit the ground. That’s how I felt with fatherhood. I needed my feet to touch something. Where I can just plant there and I could stop this fall because it was happening.

Panama Jackson [00:07:17] You know, it’s funny you say that. You know, you and I have talked about this before, like I’ve always by fatherhood wasn’t something that I think scared me. Like, I think the big unknown of what that meant scared me. But I come from a family where the fathers all raise all their kids. Like, my father wasn’t even raised by his mother. My grandfather, you know, was basically he had all of his kids, like, I come I saw that stuff. So I never really like, I was always more concerned about being a good husband than I was about being a father and not even like, cheating or anything like that. Just like, what does it mean to be a good husband? Cause my father was all those things. He was a good father, He was a provider. But I don’t I don’t really know what my father and mother’s relationship genuinely wasn’t ever asked. Right. You know, who has the insight as a kid to ask those things. So it’s funny, you know, we’ve talked about that because being of being a dad didn’t scare me. And I wasn’t really may have four kids. I love them all. They drive me bonkers, like on a daily basis. But, you know, I also think, like, I don’t know what my life would be like without these tiny humans who depend on me because I can’t imagine it. But all the stuff. But you’re a licensed therapist, right? So what is that like? How does that work? They so you basically. What does that mean? You you have the tools to know this stuff. And how does it work in your own personal life? Like all the skills and training you have, like on a personal level, forget the, the, the, the stuff you share with the world. But on a personal level, how did that help in your own journey on therapy?

Kier Gaines [00:08:44] Well. Well, you know, the thing about being a therapist is it’s just the job is glorified because of the social climate that we are currently in. But it is just a job, as is training like any other job. There’s no job that you had that is going to exonerates you from human feelings, even if it’s a therapist. So the frustrating part for me is I can draw you a road map on how to get from point A to point B, but it’s different when we talk about depression philosophically versus depression sitting on top of you and your real life and you having to navigate through that. It’s different. It’s very different. So when you experience these things, it’s like a frustration between knowing what to do and being disappointed in yourself and not being able to do better. I just I have to constantly remind myself that I’m allowed to make mistakes regardless of what my profession is. I’m allowed to make mistakes. I’m allowed to get angry for things that seem trivial. I’m allowed to to if my kid gets on my nerves to have an outburst of frustration. As long as I come back later and explain or apologize or make amends. So this is giving yourself a lot more grace because you know what it means to be human from every direction. But it can make you a lot harder on yourself. To your point earlier, when you talking about Fatherhood, just like how we come into this thing in different places, your environment plays a huge role as well. You said like the men in your life were all fathers and they take care of everything. And that’s the opposite. I was never worried about me being a husband because I figured if I could submit to the idea of marrying one person, I’d be good at that. But the idea having to have someone constantly depend on me and me never seeing a father do what he does, not in my community, not in my life, not at my friends circles. I guess that was my great unknown. So to tie it all up, that lived experience also comes back. It’s like while living in a hood or living in a place where emotions are something that we talk about very frequently or that we on or respect or attached to who we are. Man, it’s it’s it’s not one singular thing. It’s not the Instagram fix all. Wehre it is like, you know what? This is what I do gets hard. You know, I use this tool, this tool and this tool. No, I struggle profoundly. I make a lot of mistakes. I feel bad about the mistakes that I make. It’s just that I have the tools and I try to climb my way back to, as we say, climb my way back to zero when I can.

Panama Jackson [00:11:01] Time for a quick break. We’ll be right back. Yeah. And that’s one of the things and I’ve told you this personally, one of the things I think that makes you successful is the authenticity there. Like you said a lot just now. So for instance, you know, you know the roadmap, but the human part of it gets in the way. Right. And it’s funny because when I think of like people who are there is like, oh, you should know how to navigate these things. But you right, it is a job. Like just knowing what you’re supposed to do is the know better versus do better. You still got to be a human in the middle of that. Yeah, that’s this is really deep. Like to even think about that. Like, I know what my training has taught me about this, but internally, I want to punch things. I’m not supposed to do that, but I still have to figure out. So now I’ve got to figure out what’s the best solution to get to the end that I’m looking for. It’s like, I guess that’s the the good part is like it’s, I would imagine, a results oriented job, right? You thinking about how to get the best outcomes, like just as a natural inclination. So, which is interesting. So what made you decide to take all of this and put it online for the world? Like. What was that transition like? Because you’re very good at it. You know, that authenticity jumps off of the screen. There’s still a decision to be like, I’m going to be vulnerable. I’m going to be transparent, I’m going to share your wife, Noemi. Like you all have videos where you all talk about the struggles in the struggles and solutions in your marriage, just like what is like a day in the life kind of thing where you’re discussing, you’re bringing private moments, public in, allowing us all to see what that looks like and learn from it.

Kier Gaines [00:12:41] That small part of me that wants to destroy you because you pissed me off. It would have took over. But you know how that was it. You can say the thing to solve the problem. Or you could say the thing to get your words off.

Noemi [00:12:53] Yeah, those are two totally different things.

Kier Gaines [00:12:55] They don’t go to the same destination of resolution at all.

Panama Jackson [00:12:58] So what was that transition like from this is these are things that I’m interested in. Maybe I can do this as a content creator as well.

Kier Gaines [00:13:09] Think I’ve always created a concept. When I was in high school where I taught my mom’s video camera, I recorded everything. It’s always been a part of who I am and I’ve always been an open book. I feel like there are parts of the human experience that we should be embarrassed about. Having arguments in our relationships, not knowing exactly what to tell our children during difficult times. It’s in times like that where sometimes I turn on the social media and I try to figure, Well, what are these people doing? What’s what are they doing compared to what I’m doing? What’s different out there? What can I learn? What can I glean? And when I hop online, what I see is people kind of curating these perfect versions of themselves. And when I look at that, I don’t get anything from it. I feel like I’m being fed a very editorialized version of that person. So I just try to be the change that I will like to see in the world. I want to see what happens when you argue with your wife and what those and what the what solutions you come to. I want to see what happens when you disagree with your friends that you have conflict and everything is a perfect like a sitcom. You just said that therapy is results oriented. I actually disagree for the way that I practice therapy. I think I’m very process oriented, because I can’t control the results. All I can do is teach them the process and hope that you can use those tools when that time comes. And I think just a mix of all of those things urged me to put that out into the world. You know what? This morning I woke up and I had a little bit of self-doubt. If I hop on AG, somebody is going to tell me, Hey, don’t let anything make you doubt yourself. And I feel good about my day and you see me. But I got so caught up and you see in me that I didn’t realize you didn’t give me any solutions. You’re just spinning problems. So I think being solution based in the area where people really struggle is something that I look for. And I think I just I put that to my clients. It is easy to tell people to what, where, where’s the Y in the how, the what just makes people feel validated that they experience. They’re not crazy. What they think is going on is actually going on. But the what doesn’t help people when you just spin it. It’s the why and the how.

Panama Jackson [00:15:21] Yeah. I mean, you, as usual, you’re out here preaching the word. Because I think that’s true. Like, when I think of therapy, I do think of it in, like, better. You just better. You’re doing better this. But the truth is, like, you can’t be better unless you figure out how you got there in the first place, Right? Like, you understand what undergirds the issues and all that stuff. And I think.

Kier Gaines [00:15:42] Wait a minute. Wait a minute. I’m good with words, but run that one back. It does what? It does what?

Panama Jackson [00:15:48] Undergirds. You know, like what undergirds it.

Kier Gaines [00:15:51] What that mean?

Panama Jackson [00:15:52] With foundationally underneath all of those.

Kier Gaines [00:15:56] Got it.

Panama Jackson [00:15:57] Under underneath those issues.

Panama Jackson [00:15:59] Time for a quick break. We’ll be right back. But I do think as a as a father like I had, my dad was a good dad. Right. I stand by that firmly. But there wasn’t a lot of talk about emotions and all this stuff. Like, I don’t remember my father ever asking me. And, you know, if you watch this, I don’t mean this as a shot, but like how you feel about anything, what you’re doing or how you know, how do you feel about what you’re doing. And I’ve learned that as a father, like, I want to be that kind of dad. Like, I actually I genuinely want to understand, like, I never want to just be like, just do what I say because I said to do it, you know? And I do this sometimes, you know, naturally. I’m just like, boy, just.

Kier Gaines [00:16:38] Of course.

[00:16:38] You know, whatever. But, you know, I’ve learned through fatherhood how much of that stuff I need to figure the why. Like, why am I like this? Is this something that I’m good with remaining? Like, do I want to stay this way? Because if not, then I got to changes And it’s it’s funny how that’s impacted the way that I parent like on an individual basis, like learning my kids individually. They’re not just my kids. They’re all, you know, this is one person. This person. This is the one person. Yeah. In trying to meet them where they are and having given them that grace to understand, like you, one of my kids is especially late. You know, he just always like in having a real that back then but understanding like I this is just who he is and how do I do that. You know my wife is was given to me by this gentle parents and stuff and all that. And what’s I want to know what I want to know your thoughts about the whole gentle parenting thing. But it’s like. Having to learn who I am and how I got to where I am and why I’m pissed about certain things or why I react in a certain way has been a lot of process. In you’re right, I don’t know that’s ever going to end in a result. Like I’m just going to continuously hopefully get better. Gentle parenting, what do you think about that?

Kier Gaines [00:17:43] You know? First of you’re an amazing father. Our kids did tennis together. Your kids are older than my. Well, for the most part, majority of your kids, except one, are older than my. But I see you. I remember one Saturday we had tennis and like bruh, I’m chauffeuring these kids around. And you were holding a baby and had one of your hand. You said that’s what it means to be a dad, bro. You give up your weekends. And it looks mad effortless. I always admire that. And so in terms of gentle parenting, there’s two sides of me. I got the side that is me. Like me, me and then I got therapist, me. Therapist, me understands that gentle parenting is one effective way of going about parenting. It’s very popular right now. It’s one effective way to parent your child. Me. Me understands that there’s no way I can be gentle all of the time. I’m not a nice parent after 8:30. Aye, yo go to bed. I don’t. There’s no gentleness. Go to bed, you know. But the beautiful thing about science is science isn’t fact, research isn’t fact, best practice isn’t fact. It Is the closest we can get to an ideal situation with the information that we have now. In 20 years, gentle parenting may be the same thing is is talcum powder was looking back in 88. They tore our legs up. What’s all the powder? And now we found out and it it gives people cancer. I don’t mean to be that alarmist, but I say all that to say in ten years there may be another best practice for parenting that’s the complete opposite of gentle parent. But you just got to find your stride. You hit the point, most of parenting, is knowing about what’s going on with you in a moment. What’s going on with you? Are you taking this moment to center yourself? Are you saying no because you’re annoyed? Are you saying no because that’s something that’s dangerous for the kid, they shouldn’t have it in a moment? It’s really a whole bunch of internal processing. So I see that part of parents are closer to heart than the actual deployment of strategies. And. All right, honey. And using the gentle voice and trying to negotiate that, maybe you don’t have a kid that that’s going to work for that way. So there’s a multitude of different practices you’ve got to pull from. I’m not I’m not going to beat the drum or gentle parenting because they’re super popular right now. But it is it is very effective for some children or some parents. You got to take into account your personality and your kid’s personality. That’s the part we don’t always talk about.

Panama Jackson [00:20:05] I agree 100%. I will take a real quick break here and we’re going to come back and talk about all the work you do through social media. The like I said, the effective use of social media and how you got there and all that stuff. So stay tuned right here on Dear Culture. Time for a quick break. We’ll be right back. All right. We’re back here on Dear Culture. I’m still here with Kier Gaines, a licensed therapist, social media influencer, content creator, family man, husband, girl dad, all the things who has managed to very interestingly do all these things very publicly through content creation in a way that’s both effective, useful, and has allowed you a lot of opportunities and puts you in some interesting spaces. I want to talk about all that stuff. So how do we get how do we get from Kier Gaines content creator to Kier Gaines like influencer. This is what I do as a living like I am. I am a person who literally makes a living being me, authentically me at this point?

Kier Gaines [00:21:10] How crazy is that?

Panama Jackson [00:21:12] It is very crazy. I love you for you.

Kier Gaines [00:21:16] How crazy is that? We got there by having a lot of luck and by being very consistent at the same time. I had a viral video blow up about two years ago, shortly after George Floyd was murdered.

Kier Gaines Viral Video [00:21:30] So before you take on a family, bruh, go see somebody about your past and go see somebody about the trauma that you’ve endured throughout the course of your life and start healing. Because if you don’t heal from that. You have all this and you’ll never be happy. And I don’t want that for nobody.

Kier Gaines [00:21:52] And it was just about fatherhood. And it was urging men to go to therapy and say is pretty much telling my story. My cautionary tale is like, hey, if you don’t go to therapy and might retrace the steps from your childhood to deal with those things, you have the wife and the baby and the house and the dog, but you’ll never be happy. And it is a blew up everywhere. And the next thing I know, I got management teams calling me from these huge agencies talking about representing me. And one of them is the agency I’m with now DBA. And I have a manager. My manager has an entire team. Don’t look at my social media and I think I do this all by myself. I got a big team, but it all worked well. It doesn’t work that way. And basically we met and figured out the best way that I could reach out to people. I was doing fatherhood content at first. I was only doing fatherhood content and my manager was like, you need to like, start, you have some brilliant insights when it comes to mental health. Maybe you should start giving people advice. And I was like, No, I don’t want to tell people what to do. It’s too many people on IG telling people what to do. And after a while I kind of found my niche. Not so much telling people this is a thing you need to do to fix your life, but to say some practices that are effective with my clients, if you could just recruit some of those practices throughout your own life. It may be helpful for you. It’s a very touch and go way of giving people information and letting them use their skills, and they lived experience to work that thing out. And I think it’s a mix of just me being a mass media undergrad major, knowing how to captivate people’s attention really quickly, understanding how to bring touchpoints in in a way that doesn’t make people feel blamed and accused and makes them feel enlightened and empowered. And just just being a person that gets bored real easy. But like, I see comments and, you know, grab me 3 seconds I’m gone and I put that I apply that to my own content. And just after a while, the brands start to see you. Target starts to see you and all these other big companies start to see you, and they can see their brands and their strategies in the content that you do. And the more brand content you do, the more brand content opportunities you get. And that’s like, All right, well, let’s play around with other stuff. I want to deliver this message to people and you put it out there and maybe it fall flat, maybe it gets high acclaim, but you take whatever that response is and you look at the thing you built and you strip away the parts that people didn’t like so much, you add parts that you think they will like, and then you present it back to the public. It’s just a whole bunch of litmus testing and not being afraid to look like a complete fool on the Internet.

Panama Jackson [00:24:30] I think it’s because you say that. Because so. Well, let me let me circle back to this first. That video you’re talking about was amazing. Like, I had people people who don’t know that I know you sent me that video like nonstop like it was. And I remember you tell you I think maybe you did a video about this. Like that was something you had in the stash. Like you weren’t even it wasn’t like an intentional thing that you put up. You just decided, I guess maybe decided one day to to drop in. All of a sudden your life changes, right? Like, yeah, something.

Kier Gaines [00:24:58] I had to drop it twice.

Panama Jackson [00:24:58] It’s like really good video. You said, Oh, you dropped it twice.

Kier Gaines [00:25:01] Yeah. The first time I got like 300 likes. I added captions to it and music to and every posted it and it went nuts.

Panama Jackson [00:25:10] Okay. I didn’t realize it was a that was a second time. Listen, sometimes you got to re-release the single. You know what I’m saying? Sometimes.

Kier Gaines [00:25:15] Sometimes you got to re-release the single. That’s fax.

Panama Jackson [00:25:19] And and it’s funny because so that thing that that thing goes viral, it really was out of there. I remember seeing celebs like it was everywhere. But most Yeah, man, really, it was really helpful. It was like something that I think that, like you said, luck at the right time. All of us who needed to see that saw that. And it just so happened, a lot of people needed to see that at that time. And a lot of people I know this is the concept that we need more of because the content that we’re getting like this is a person who has something to say that we probably need to hear more of this and. You know, I guess I wonder, how did you master? So. Okay. That’s a that’s a that’s a it’s something that kind of took you out of here. But now you’re in the limelight. Now you’re in the space where you have to continue to create this content. How do you decide what you’re going to continuously put out there? Because you say consistency, like in this business, consistency is key. If you don’t drop something for a week, people forget you exist, right? It’s easy to move on to somebody else. How do you keep up with the content release schedule and also decide what you’re going to post?

Kier Gaines [00:26:26] I decide what I want to post based on the things that I find interesting. It’s you can look at trends and look at the things that get a lot of views, but there’s just certain talking points that I see are missing from the social. Like there’s this one quote with his author was talking about women being more emotionally wired. And I’m like, Oh, this would be a really good opportunity to talk about the stereotype of men being a fact based and strategic and logic and women being emotional. Like that’s a complete collective cognitive distortion that we have. Let’s talk about that. And you cut straight to the conversation. Anxiety. I deal with anxiety every day in my life. I know tools. Let me deliver people these three tools or the storytelling element and see how it goes. So I’m just applying things from conversations that I have, things that I experience in my own life and just presenting it to the public. There’s no grand strategy. In terms of keeping it rolling. I’m always writing. I’m always recording. It consoles a large part of my life, but I absolutely love it. I think that’s the thing. When you love it, you look at it from a different angle because it’s not just some type of product they’re just trying to feed to the masses. This is what you really think and what you really believe it, and you lean toward a little bit differently when you get attached to it.

Panama Jackson [00:27:44] Time for a quick break. We’ll be right back.

Panama Jackson [00:27:50] You know, you brought in the man who speaks and this is something I really wanted to talk to you about, because I know you do a lot of work with like you done by in-person events and stuff. Like. Like. Diverse conversations about manhood and what it means to be a man and what that looks like in in in bringing in all like talking about anxiety. Like, like I have this conversation with my wife all the time because she’s like, you know, in America, everybody’s stressed out and all this stuff and people, you know, therapy and all this stuff. And I’m like, I wonder if people are just like that around the world. It’s just here. There’s a constant focus on this stuff now. Like just because it’s undiagnosed doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. Right? And I feel like there’s a lot of conversations now about that. And you posted something in January that I wanted to talk to you about, especially as it relates to like this manhood space. And here’s what you said. I’m going to read this directly. It says, “I’ve been a full time content creator for two years, and I’m so disappointed in the lack of affirming, helpful content that exists for men out there. It’s just difficult to come across. I love to see more men commit to widening the perspectives and improving the lives of other men. Make your content, bro, but add a little value to the community along the way.” And that that’s stuck with me. Like when I saw that like, and I knew I was going to talk to him like I got to talk about this, like the diversity of manhood and the kind of content that seems to be out there nowadays, which I can acknowledge is very disappointing in a lot of spaces because it’s very it kind of goes back to the telling women what’s wrong with them. Like, that’s the only thing that men seem to like talk. I don’t want I don’t want to short changes because I know that’s not all that’s out there, but there’s a lot of that. That’s the kind of stuff that bubbles right there, kind of, you know.

Kier Gaines [00:29:26] It’s the predominant voice.

Panama Jackson [00:29:27] About it and it’s share. Yeah. Yeah. So like, what kind of content one would you like to see more of? And like, how does that disappointment, like spur so much of the work that you do?

Kier Gaines [00:29:41] The way that it spurs the work that I do. I think that that kind of is the answer in the question. It’s the disappointment. It’s my lived experience of being a young man and wishing that I knew how to navigate my relationships with women better, especially outside of a sexual context. Because when I see whenever I see a man. When you say specifically a Black man and he has a large platform and either he has a book out or he is writing a book. And he’s very intelligent. And he you know, he knows how to put his words together. His content is almost always going to be around giving women advice like dating advice or love advice or affirming women specifically without affirming men. And sometimes this concept is similar to the idea that men need to do better. And the thing that frustrates me is if you’re a man in the space preaching that men need to do better. How is it that none of your content actually connects those dots and teaches men to do better? Men has historically done a lot in society to subjugate and step on a variety of different people. There’s no escaping that. But we’re at a point now where manhood is facing like this real identity crisis and men are being asked to do things that we’ve never been asked to do before. And I think the predominant voice of some of those spaces is like “Aye, it’s about time ya need to catch up.” In all actuality, from a healing and a learning perspective, it doesn’t work that way because you don’t know what you don’t know sometimes. So where’s the gentle guiding voice for these men, especially the young men? And I think that’s something that I would like to see more.

Kier Gaines [00:31:23] For the young men who are between the ages of 14 and 24. Where’s the developmental advice for them? Where is the “Hey, this is how you choose a good mate.” Try to find some content that shows young men how to choose a good mate. Find it. It does not exist. But what does exist is a multitude of voices telling the young men these things that you think are wrong, which I understand why that exist. It has to exist. It has to change. Or this is why the things that you think are bad. This is why the ways that you behave are unsavory. And it just cast the shadow of these young men just become in like the social boogeymen, as opposed to say, Hey, this is where you are. Maybe this is where you ideally like to be. This is where I see tell me where I’m wrong. And when you sit, and men are always very I’m not going to say always, that’s too big. But you know, whenever we get in a room, it’s usually about money. Everybody’s very, you know, straight up and empowered. And this is how we lift our community. And it’s just all of these rigid conversations. Like bro where the podcast where Black men are laughing. Telling jokes and kicking it. It’s just such a poor diversity of manhood. I’d like to see those a little bit more. So I try to put that in my content. I like to see men pour into men. I like to see that more socially. Not just feed women empty validation to make them buy your books. But actually pour into men. It’s not going to make you the same amount of money. Of course not. But the larger social impact is valuable if you love Black people.

Panama Jackson [00:33:04] Yeah, I actually think it could make you a lot of money if, I mean, as long as it’s genuine or I like you bring in that stuff honestly, because it’s funny, like you say that I have. I have my wife’s youngest. She has two younger brothers who are both in college right now. So they’re, you know, excellent. Yeah, actually, young man. Yeah. They’re going to be wonderful additions to society, right. Once They.

Kier Gaines [00:33:26] Absolutely.

Panama Jackson [00:33:26] Step into that role. Right. But it’s funny, the kind of conversations that I have with them, because they largely do some of the stuff you’re talking about. Like I talked to them about getting married and like the kind of women that you’re looking for and not not just men, these women and X-Y-Z, but just kind of like, you know, who are you and what do you actually think? Like the you know what I’ve learned a lot about men in like as a boy, you just don’t know what you don’t know. You don’t even know what questions to ask. Right. Because there’s nobody there’s nobody asking you the question or making you think about this stuff like kids are remarkably self-centered and young. You know, we think you’re an adult when you 18, but you’re still a kid, right? Like the amount of self-centeredness that exists. So it doesn’t allow you to truly think outside of yourself and like, think about yourself in a global capacity. Like, all right, at some point I want to get married. But what does that mean? And what am I looking for in a person I want to marry? I like, here’s how. What kind of person am I right now? And is this something I can work on like I’m not messy and why am I clean? And my all these things like the stuff that we just don’t naturally think about it until you have to and you hope it ain’t too late. You didn’t already marry somebody. Now y’all are clashing or you’re in a relationship in your clashing because the type because you didn’t realize what you hated before you got there. You know what I mean? Or you didn’t think about yourself and what kind of person you were going to be to that person. So, you know, it’s funny you say that, because I have all the a lot of these conversations with them. And like my nephews, I have a bunch of nephews and, you know, like, I love talking to them about that stuff. But you’re right. I don’t think there’s a or I haven’t seen it anyway like a very ever present body of conversations that happen like this that are focusing on young men and talking to them about who they’re going to be ten years from now. One, helping them believe they’re going to be alive ten years from now and helping them decide what kind of person they’re going to be ten years from now and where they could be ten years from now. And like, what your life can look like. Like you don’t have to think about next week. You could. You have the right and you should have the capacity to think about, you know, the privilege to think about what your life can be like when you get older and living the life that you actually want. So, like, I appreciate that line of thinking because you’re right. I don’t think it exists.

Kier Gaines [00:35:29] No, I remember I used to run a youth program in D.C. and with the young men, but we did a whole three month group talk on different ways to find validation outside of sex. You know, there are there are grown men who have a hard time finding validation outside of sex. And when you present that because would have because of what men have meant to the world traditionally throughout time, when you present that to the larger society, no one’s going to have any type of sympathy for that. There’s going to be no sympathy for that. There’s going to be not a lot of grace for that learning curve. It just is not going to exist in that vacuum. But that’s a real thing. You don’t know what you don’t know who’s willing to inform you on those things. And we talked about it for three months. What makes you feel good? What makes you feel needed? What makes you feel purposeful? Outside of having sex. And for the first three weeks, we had crickets when I would ask that question, because it requires a lot of exploration. Exploration requires flexibility. Traditional manhood isn’t very flexible. So, you know, just things like that, you can have that conversation with adult men and sometimes they’ll struggle because to your point, those questions have never just been asked in their circles.

Panama Jackson [00:36:41] Yeah, I was going to say 40 year old men probably still struggle with a lot of that stuff. Right. Because again, who’s asking you these questions to be like, Who’s asking these questions that’s not in the fight, right? You’re not in the middle of a fight where you have to figure out who you are. Because a lot of this stuff you learn because you you’re forced into it because you fighting with the person that you decided to do life with or you’re in a relationship. And it’s like you realize, like, if you if you have enough wherewithal to be self-aware, you’re thinking about that. I why am I doing this? Like, why am I so mad about this? Or what is the value that I place on you? Like, it’s not even know what the answer. I don’t know how to get there because I think it’s great that you do something like that’s a that’s a long time. A three month process is a long time. And I still like but you need like to be we need to started like six years old to start talking about like who you gonna be when you get older and let’s think about, you know, like not just you give mommy flowers, but why do we do these things so that mommy can feel good? Why is it important? Yeah.

Kier Gaines [00:37:40] Exactly, bruh. Exactly. But because manhood as a whole has been very performative. You open the car, you you sit on the right, you stand on a closed side of traffic. We’ve prioritized those things from decades ago that just don’t hold the same esteem anymore. The average car weighs, what, 3,000 pounds? 3500 pounds? If that joint hops the curb it don’t matter how close I’m standing on the street. Me and my wife are both goners. Why are we prioritizing this showmanship and you can do all these things, but you can’t legitimately listen to her when she’s talking? What’s the point of holding open the door if you can’t see her as a person? And that’s not even blaming these young men. Because to your point, like, it’s just not a conversation that we’re having one. And on the other side of that. There’s no soft place for your inability to understand to land. There is no soft place. Go on Twitter and talk about you have struggles as a as a man understanding those things. You’d going to get ripped apart. There’s no soft place for that to land. So how do you have the discussion when it’s not talked about? And then there’s no safe place? Like it’s burning the candle from both ends here.

Panama Jackson [00:38:51] Man. That is that is so deep. Even just now thinking about that, you know, I never think about it as just performative. But I think you’re right. Like we have all these things that men are just supposed to do, but there’s never a conversation about a why a man does this or why you’re supposed to do this. Like what’s in, in the big ones are like the discussions about your emotions. Like you have all these emotions, but you have nowhere to put them because we just tell boys to be a man. Suck it up. Like suck it up Like men don’t probably do that to little kids all the time. You know, I have three boys. And it’s funny because I look at that now and I’ll let my boys cry. Right now we’re going to talk about why you’re crying. Like, what’s what’s making you cry? Like, I have this thing. And, you know, I told my wife, I do this and everybody like like if I hurt one of my kids feelings, right? Like, the first thing I do, like, I would drop to my knee so that I’m eye to eye with them because I don’t want to be, like, lording over like, given this dominating feeling like, like, like scary dad, Like, I want you to see me. Like, if I’m gonna give you a hug cause I need you to see that. And it’s so weird because I don’t ever remember that happening to me. And I don’t know why I started to do that innately. I just know one day I felt a very sincere need to apologize to my oldest son, and I thought the only way I could do that was to bring myself down to his level. So he felt me like right there. And I noticed the difference that makes in the things that he’ll say to me. He’ll talk to me differently, right? Like he’ll speak to me now. It’s like pulling teeth sometimes because he’s, you know, he’s still seven. So, you know, you get in trouble. Answering questions is difficult. You know, you don’t have the words, but, you know, I’m hoping that kind of helps ensure that as they get older, the listening and the give and take will still be there. But every kid will have a dad doing that. You know what I’m saying? Or a father or male figure, for that matter, or a mother who isn’t going to tell him to be the man of the house at 12, you know, 11, 12, 13, 14 years old. So like, I’m like, I don’t even like how do we get a like, is it just everybody got to go through a three month program? What do we do?

Kier Gaines [00:40:43] I think we’re doing it now. It’s hard to see history while is being made. So it’s is in hindsight that we realize how great the efforts were. We’re doing it now. Like my my daughter’s in kindergarten and they have conversations about body autonomy. What, in kindergarten? It’s necessary. You know, you plant those seeds early so that they’re not strange conversations when they come up in later years. I think a lot of work is being done now. I always say I look at boy moms like these 2023 boy moms with a great social emotional awareness and the I’m a let’s you have your space in your privacy. I was born in 86, 90s and eighties boy moms would, boom, hit you in the chest and and you know and call you some words that are unsavory in today’s climate. So we got to remember that we’re not being, we weren’t brought up on today’s values. We were brought up yesterday’s values. And humans have short term memories. The things that exist now existed forever. Like we’re in this mental health renaissance right now. We’re in a full throes of it. And everyone’s like, Oh, you know, you’re a narcissist, you’re toxic. And I’ve never heard anyone use a narcissism, the correct context, an appropriate context ever.

[00:41:57] People get it wrong all the time.

Kier Gaines [00:41:59] You’re gaslighting me. The genesis of gaslighting is manipulation. I’m sharing an opinion that you disagree with. I’m not trying manipulate you to belittle or invalidate your feelings. But we have all of this great socio emotional language, but we don’t know how to practically apply it. So now it’s I don’t know. It’s this is like you read a book or build an airplane that you think you can go in a garage and build your b40 bomb or the next day. I think it’s like the same principle. It’s going to take us a long time for these boys and girls of growing of men and women who demonstrate all of these great lessons that this current society is taught. But we still fleshing out the nasty trash water from 20, 25, 30 years ago. I think is happening right now. Still going to take us a while to see.

Panama Jackson [00:42:44] Fair enough. Alright, we’re going to take one more break here Dear Culture. We’re going to come back and I have some fun questions for you. We are going to get us some Blackfessions, some Blackmendation, and find out where you.

Kier Gaines [00:42:53] Blackfessions.

Panama Jackson [00:42:55] Blackfessions and Blackmendations.

Kier Gaines [00:42:56] I love it.

Panama Jackson [00:42:57] Where you can get all this knowledge from. So stay tuned right here on Dear Culture. Time for a quick break. We’ll be right back.

[00:43:03] theGrio Black Podcast Network is here. Everything you’ve been waiting for, Black Culture Amplify. Find your voice on the Black Podcast Network. Listen today on theGrio mobile app and tune in everywhere. Great podcast are heard.

Panama Jackson [00:43:20] All right, we’re back here on Dear Culture. I’m still here with Kier Gaines. We’ve been having a really in-depth conversation, actually, the kind of thing that you probably. We wanted to do this multiple times. We need to sit down. These are like the kind of conversations you could really have all day with people because you, you making headways into the ways of the world. But we here talking to you on this podcast, we don’t have all day. And I do want to get to some fun questions, which then I’m going to start with this one. What’s been the most amazing thing that’s happened to you thus far since you become like a public figure, but also somewhat simultaneously? What’s been the most fulfilling thing that’s happened so far since you become here? Gaines content creator and all these things. So the most amazing, most fulfilling.

Kier Gaines [00:44:04] The most amazing thing. I only got a hold of me. I probably make friends with celebrities I’ve admired for the longest and not just like, Hey, Bud wassup DM. I mean, like actual legit friends. That’s crazy to me. It’s the level of access that this thing gives you is insane, man. I’ve met some amazing people who have admired from afar forever and now close personal friends. That’s been the most amazing thing. The most fulfilling thing is probably the reactions that I get from people on the street. The love is insane. People who are not shy about saying there’s something you told them has been transformative in their life or in their relationships. The men that approach me in the street, I think that may be my favorite thing. This one dude walked, I was in D.C. and Adams Morgan. I was walking up the street. This one dude he was walking. He said, “Aye, man ain’t you the dude that be talking that therapy on the internet.” I was like, “Yeah, that’s me.” Hey, this dude came over and grabbed and hugged me. He was like, “Bro, Thank you. I been needing to hear that sometimes.” And then we proceeded to have a conversation That’s not rare. Like, that’s not rare. It happens all of the time. That’s really fulfilling because I get from these men tons of women, of course, too. But I get from these men that they just don’t have an outlet for those things. Makes me feel good, man.

Panama Jackson [00:45:23] And it should, because I do think that stuff is important. I mean, you know, as somebody who probably not as many as you do it at this point, used to have people come up to me all the time that you’re that you wrote that thing that you wrote about such and such, yo that was amazing. That happens all the time. And I’ve always been like super appreciative of that. But it’s like, dang, like you just really never know who’s paying attention to what you’re doing, you know?

Kier Gaines [00:45:44] Yeah, man,.

Panama Jackson [00:45:44] That’s the biggest lesson I’ve learned out of my own world in writing. And all this stuff is like, you know, I mean, you, you interview Kamala Harris At this point.

Kier Gaines [00:45:53] There’s no problem that exists that gets better when we don’t talk about.

Kamala Harris [00:45:58] Hmm. Say that again.

Kier Gaines [00:45:59] That’s what I’m trying to say. That we’re transparent about our struggles. In a bonus. Other people are just, you know, I am human.

Panama Jackson [00:46:06] You know, you’ve. You been Oprah’s spotlighted you. You’ve been a part of all these. Let people know who you are. But in a real and legit way, it is for something worthwhile, not for something that went wrong or went bad or anything like that. And I think, you know, from afar, from outside looking in, that stuff is really impressive. Not just that those celebrities know who you are, but if they know who you are, that means tons of people who are famous know who you are and are paying attention in our, you know, hopefully waiting to have that moment where they see you in the street and give you a hug and tell you that the stuff that you talk about is really valuable and helpful.

Kier Gaines [00:46:38] Yeah. Dang. I never I never thought about it that way, man. It was Beyonce has something like two years ago. I think she’s celebrating dads or something. And I looked at my picture was in that joint. It was like a composition was like, wait a minute, somebody on Beyonce’s team knows who I am. She just might know why I is. It’s incredibly noble when you’re being yourself you don’t have the fear of actually being seen for who you are. It makes you really comfortable in your skin. I walk into a room is me because that’s who we all expect. It’s the best way to live, man.

Panama Jackson [00:47:11] Yeah, I and I love that. And that kind of leads me to the last, like, big question I’m going to ask you, which is. Like. Could you ever have imagined this is the life that you would live? But the second part of that is has this like. Has this changed where you think you can go? And I’ll tell you why I asked that second part. I stopped trying to map out my life years ago because every door that’s open for me through Very Smart Brothas is a door I didn’t know existed. I didn’t know was out there. I didn’t know to even go look for it. Right. I’ve been able to do the most amazing, craziest things. I speak at universities. Like I speak to companies. They pay me insane amounts of money to do these things. And I go places and people know who I am. I get I I’ve met every. I’ve met so many famous people. At this point. Fame does it it’s not even it’s not even a little bit like what’s the term? Intimidating. I’ve been in fights with famous people at this point. Like active.

Kier Gaines [00:48:16] Oh, yeah.

Panama Jackson [00:48:16] Active. Like we got into it with famous people that may not like what kind of stuff is happening. So it’s like, yeah, I’m completely over celebrity as like, as, like a thing. They’re like, like internally, like, does something for me, but, you know, so I stop thinking about where I can get because random you’ll get an email that changes the trajectory of that just like this. And now I’m going in a different direction and I’m about to go meet this person and do this. And it’s changed the course of my life. So like, Well, how has that been for you? So start with the first part. Like, did you ever possibly see this in Has this changed the way you view your future?

Kier Gaines [00:48:51] And no, I didn’t see this man. I thought I was going to be working in District of Columbia Public Schools until I got my license. And then I was going to do private practice, and I was completely content with that, just seeing my clients and and being the therapists. No, no, no. And to your point, I don’t I don’t plan like that anymore. Like I. Leanna to the things that make sense I feel good and I allow life to happen is I’m past the point of being able to plan. The opportunities are crazy. The connections are crazy. I just try to make sure that I show up in those spaces in a way that once I’m done with what I have to do, I feel proud about it. I feel good about it. I feel like it’s a reflection of me. Like you said, I’m a celebrity out of got in the Face was super. We’re not faced with disagreements. We’re like super famous people, you know, just a person. And you roam support. So a person.

Panama Jackson [00:49:39] That had you wrong.

Kier Gaines [00:49:40] And, you know.

Panama Jackson [00:49:41] I had to get separated from a celebrity because of that, because I was like, you were all bro. You know, you were wrong. I had to be separate. You know, business is business wrong.

Kier Gaines [00:49:49] But sometimes business is personal. And we got to stop acting like one of the most personal things ever ain’t business. And I got told to crazy by a celebrity. I’m like wait a minute, this don’t feel right. And then me and that person really had it out like, Man, you are not used to having conversations with people who do not need you. Who do not depend on you for their lifestyle or their sustenance or anything. I don’t have to acquiesce. So we all had this conversation either way. Yeah, it’s. Just. It’s a regular thing, man. It’s. And that’s what I tell myself in my head. It’s a regular thing. Uh huh. And I don’t know what the next thing is, but if if I’m presented to my team, which is my wife and my manager and my family, if the consortium says it’s a good move and it feels good in my heart, shoot straight with it, man.

Panama Jackson [00:50:44] Yeah, I love that man. And I love that for you. I mean, I’ve said that already, but I love that for you. And I like. No, it’s. I come to appreciate the randomness of my own life in that way.  Just like I said, you never know. An email could change the course of everything. You know, like, I got an email today that I’m like, Huh? Never thought about that. But now that I’m thinking about that, that’s going to change the way that I do things two weeks from now, you know what I mean?

Kier Gaines [00:51:08] Absolutely.

Panama Jackson [00:51:12] The social media and the Internet makes all that possible and how when you do good work, people come and find you and and, you know, like you stopped looking for the folks. Because they’re out there looking for you. And once they find a way to get to you, they get to you. And I love that. So I’m appreciative of my own opportunities. And I know yours is insane. So I like that.

Kier Gaines [00:51:32] I got a question to ask you. I always wanted this. So when people walk up to you and you’re like, Oh man, I love this thing that you did. Or man, I love this. I love that talk that you had or this point that you made. What’s your reaction like? What is that space like for you? Is it weird? Do you go over and above like a YouTuber? You know, YouTubers are like over the top excited. Oh my gosh, Thank you so much. That means so much to me that you would say that like kind of like the fake, over-the-top personality. You just kind of hit them, even kill. Like, how do you approach those situations?

Panama Jackson [00:52:08] So what I’ve learned about myself is that, one, I genuinely enjoy meeting people. So when somebody comes and tells me there’s something that I’ve done that they both interacted with or they really enjoy whatever, like, you know, a very appreciative moment, I’m definitely not going over the them like, you know, thank you. Like that really means something to me and I’ve had this this this luxury suppose of people like feeling like they know me, like people ask about my family and stuff. You know, I wrote an article about my mom years ago that went viral. And so people always like to talk to me about that. But I’m pretty even keel with it. And what I always make sure to do this is something I always make sure to do is ask people what their name is. Because.

Kier Gaines [00:52:47] Everytime.

Panama Jackson [00:52:47] Like, I want you to know that I care about who’s talking to me, right? Because I’ve been in this position where, you know, I forget people’s names and I feel so bad about this. I always like to when I’m talking to you, I like to, you know, username. And so I I’m appreciative people come up, you know, what’s up Like, I love what you just did. That was great. I love this article that you wrote like, but and people like to argue with me too. So that’s another thing. So it allows me to just be normal because people like to argue with me about stuff that I write. Like people don’t just say, Oh, that article was great. They’d be like, Yo, you wrong about number eight, bro? I’m like, What was number eight? And I’m like, I don’t remember that, you know, people like too. So that’s one thing. It lets me know that the stuff that I’m doing actually matters to some degree. Like people remember specifics about it, like, Oh, you could do that, wrote that article. How are you going to say, Alicia Keys can’t sing, bro, She can’t. And then we get to next thing you know, we have an A 30 or 45 minute argument or debate. But it’s fun, right? And I’m like, I met a new person. Something I wrote literally created this environment where I can do this. Like, I love that type of stuff. Like I live for it. It doesn’t overwhelm me. Like I’m an extrovert. People comeing and talking to me, doesn’t overwhelm me. I don’t feel like, wow, after I’ve done, I’m like, I need to exhale or whatever. Nah, I love that. Like, I feed off of that and I love it. And I’m appreciative that that’s the life that I live, where that can happen to me sometimes. You know what I’m saying. I love that.

Kier Gaines [00:54:04] I like that you embrace it because it’s very easy to be like, Oh, not what I did. Isn’t that good of No, you know, I’m not gonna say fake humility, but like the abundance of humility where you can’t accept the compliment or you can’t accept the fact that someone is appreciative of something you put out into the world and just staying and receive that love. There’s so many people will take this too much in the moment. The chatter deflected some way, and I’m glad you’re able to receive that love. That’s something I learned a couple of years ago, and I’m all in now. I’ll sit there I’ll let you tell me everything you see and I’ll just absorb it. Be really appreciative for a moment.

Panama Jackson [00:54:39] Yeah, and I love learning from people. Time for a quick break. We’ll be right back. So now comes like my favorite part of my podcast, Dear Culture, where we get into our Blackfessions and here’s why we do this. Black people love saying, “We ain’t a monolith,” right? We love telling any time we all want to say we do so, which we all stereotypically do all the same stuff. But any time people do the feels like, well, we’re not a monolith. We don’t you know, we don’t all think alike. Cool. So here’s our opportunity to prove it. Blackfession, which is a confession, something about the Blackness that people will be surprised to know about cause you Black. So do you have a Blackfession?

Kier Gaines [00:55:17] Yeah, man.

Panama Jackson [00:55:20] Let’s go.

Kier Gaines [00:55:21] Man, it’s going to give me canceled. But you know, I’m going to lean on the culture for this. I don’t understand mac and cheese. It’s not that good. It tastes like salt, butter and fat. That’s it. I’m sorry, it taste like cheese, fat and salt. It it don’t have no diversity in like flavor profile. It tastes like one. I don’t understand. It’s not that good, man. It’s not that good.

Panama Jackson [00:55:46] You’re like the fifth person to say mac and cheese. I’m learning Black people we really overindex our love for mac and cheese and as a staple item, because so many Black people do not rock with mac and cheese. I am so surprised.

Kier Gaines [00:55:59] It’s one of those things like if there’s a show everyone says is funny. And there’s just like the collective believe that it’s funny and even though you’re in the minority you will hahaha. A few things were funny. This is the funniest show ever. You just kind of gotta go along to get along because that’s what the culture says. I feel that way about mac and cheese. I don’t. I don’t understand people before now. It needs to have some onions or some garlic or something in it. It’s just plain. If you come at me, talking about, “Your family don’t know how to cook.” Stop it. My family from low country, South Carolina. They’ll cook your family under the table. I don’t play with me like that.

Panama Jackson [00:56:32] Yeah, I’m. I love mac and cheese. I’ve become I love my family’s mac and cheese. Everybody’s mac and cheese. And that’s what I’ve definitely learned. I love when my family cooks it in, you know, people. Here’s some restaurants to go to has really good mac and cheese but you know they probably also trying to kill me with some with salted the same time but. I’m just I’m not I’m not surprised by that anymore because I’ve done enough of these where people say they don’t like mac and cheese. For real? For real. That now I’m like, maybe I’m learning that mac and cheese ain’t is ain’t is beloved is. I think it is. But that’s a good lesson. Good thing to know. So you won’t be canceled.

Kier Gaines [00:57:01] So people be saying that a lot? Like they don’t like mac and cheese? I didn’t notice that. I can I. Can I get a 1a? If that’s my one. Can I get a 1a?

Panama Jackson [00:57:13] What you got?

Kier Gaines [00:57:14] Man. So this will give me killed. You know how we always say white people don’t season their food? I have a theory that Black people overseaon everything. And if you look, if like if your grandma put a pound of salt in the collard greens growing up, of course you won’t think a dash of salt here is under season and mama, people love you there too. We overseas and everything. What are the two leading killers of Black people? Salt and sugar. Yeah. Arguably unholy sometimes, but like salt and sugar. It’s like, bro, killing us. We Over-season everything. Come on, man. Why the sweet potatoes got my cavity going crazy? Then they got marshmallows in it, too. Huh?

Panama Jackson [00:58:03] Yeah. I talked to Anthony Anderson about that one time because he said that he never drank Kool-Aid and was like, That’s probably why you’re here, because, you know, Black people over, you know, we start with the sugar. Right? You know, you still alive because you didn’t make Kool-Aid because, you know, we you poured your heart, which is half a bag of sugar in some Kool-Aid. Just drinking straight sugar. It’s syrup at some point. So. Yeah. It’s funny.

Kier Gaines [00:58:24] It be fire, though.

Panama Jackson [00:58:26] Yeah. I mean, what, you got Kool-Aid in your house? Y’all a Kool-Aid house?

Kier Gaines [00:58:30] We’re not a Kool-Aid house, but I grew up on Kool-Aid, and man I’ll pour the sugar until that thing stop.

Panama Jackson [00:58:36] We don’t have any Kool-Aid in my house, but I grew up on Kool-Aid. Do. Okay. All right, so you got your 1 and 1a. I appreciate that. You know, and I agree. I actually do agree. I do think we overseas in food sometimes, like there’s a right amount in we a lot of people miss that. A lot of people completely miss the right amount. They yeah, they you know, so. All right. So to counteract, you know, the the the, the Blackfession that you provide, we also ask people for Blackmendation, which is a recommendation for, by and about something Black. Like for Black people, for the community, for the culture. Do you have a Blackmendation?

Kier Gaines [00:59:10] Yeah, I do. Actually. It there’s this company called Savoir Faire is owned by my man Chris Classic. And they have fragrances. They have a lot of stuff, but mainly fragrances. And he uses, I mean, like the salt of the earth fragrances. Like I’m a mix a little. What do they bring Jesus back in the day?

Panama Jackson [00:59:28] Something in mur.

Kier Gaines [00:59:30] Mur. I’ll mix mur and African violet or light some stuff. It smells good. It smells so good. The savoir faire. I just bought like five bottles of the cologne every time I put it on my wife is like. And he’s not paying me. I’m just a patron. But I absolutely love his products. I’m not one of those. Like I’m always going to buy Black. But is something special when you buy from a good business that has a good practice and good quality products and it’s also Black. Not just you know, I’m a do the Black owned business with a t shirt.

Panama Jackson [01:00:04] Right.

Kier Gaines [01:00:05] Peeling off the chest in two days. But hey, I supported my people like, nah, I am a sucker for a good business practice and a quality product with amazing customer service. And they got all three. So Savoir Faire. 

Panama Jackson [01:00:17] All right, duly noted. And I saw you posted that recently on your IG, which leads to the last part, like how can people find you so that they can go see, you know, some of these affirmations that you share, some of the best practices, the things that you talk about, like where can people find clear gains.

Kier Gaines [01:00:33] You can from your Instagram? K.I.E.R. Gaines. G.A.I.N.E.S. If you just type in KIER,you’ll see my big Black face smileing. It’s almost unmistakable. My Instagram is where I post the majority of my consent. I don’t say I have followers. I say I have a community. Because even in the comment section, people are helping other people to share the experiences.

Panama Jackson [01:00:53] A real comment section.

Kier Gaines [01:00:55] It’s a real comment section, man. It’s not just dog piling negativity, which is hard to find on the internet. So please come on. I would love to have you be part of my community. Just don’t say nothing to me about mac and cheese or over-seasoning food because we don’t get into it. I’m just kidding. I’m not.

Panama Jackson [01:01:12] Brother. I appreciate your time and coming to talk it. This is a real conversation. I genuinely appreciate that stuff. And like you, there’s a give and take in like a real discussion about stuff that matter because, you know, it’s easy to kind of talk about not the stuff that doesn’t matter, but stuff that doesn’t have far reaching impacts on the community. Like in in the worst you do, I think is the kind of stuff that I genuinely think as a far reaching impact on like not just the Black community but the community at large, that we are a world community. And I think that as people learning to be better humans, availing ourselves of therapy, being intentional about those things, we do it just, you know, caring about your fellow man and trying to trying to be there for other people, I think is something that truly goes a long way. So I appreciate that these are things that you do and do well and authentically in a way that doesn’t make me feel like I’m being talked to, but I’m talking with, you know what I mean?

Kier Gaines [01:02:03] For sure.

Panama Jackson [01:02:04] You appreciate it.

Kier Gaines [01:02:06] All right. Thanks, man. I appreciate you having me on. Is I always go places and I get to talk about me, the therapist, but I really get to talk about meet a person. So whenever a Black man can appear in front of a screen and talk about the things that are going on in his life, if people are receptive to it, it’s always amazing. So thank you for having me on.

Panama Jackson [01:02:24] Yeah, thank you, brother. And for dear culture, thank everybody for listening. Thank you for checking out this podcast episode. Make sure you check out every other podcast that we have here at theGrio Black Podcast Network. Writing Black, The Blackest Questions, theGrio Daily. We got a bunch of wonderfully Black content. If you like what you heard, be sure to download theGrio’s app to hear more episodes of Dear Culture and more original content from theGrio Black Podcast Network. Please email all questions, suggestions and compliments to podcast at theGrio.com. Dear Culture is an original production brought to you by theGrio Black Podcast Network.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:03:11] I’m political scientist, author and professor Dr. Christina Greer, and I’m host of The Blackest Questions on theGrio’s Black Podcast Network. This person invented ranch dressing around 1950. Who are they?

Marc Lamont Hill [01:03:25] I have no idea.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:03:26] This all began as an exclusive Black history trivia party at my home in Harlem with family and friends. And they got so popular it seemed only right to share the fun with our Grio listeners. Each week we invite a familiar face on the podcast to play. What was the name of the person who was an enslaved chief cook for George Washington and later ran away to freedom? In 1868, this university was the first in the country to open a medical school that welcomed medical students of all races, genders and social classes. What university was it?

Roy Wood, Jr [01:03:59] This is why I like doing stuff with you, because I leave educated. I was not taught this in Alabama Public Schools.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:04:06] Question three. You ready?

Eboni K. Williams [01:04:07] Yes. I want to redeem myself.

Amanda Seales [01:04:09] How do we go from Kwanzaa to like these obscure stories. This is like the New York Times crossword from a Monday to a Saturday.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:04:19] Right or wrong, because all we care about is the journey and having some fun while we do it.

Kalen Allen [01:04:24] I’m excited and also a little nervous.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:04:27] No need to be nervous. And as I tell all of my guests, this is an opportunity for us to educate ourselves because Black history is American history. So we still have some fun. Listen, some people get zero out of five. Some people get five out of five. It doesn’t matter. We’re just going be on a little intellectual journey together.

Eboni K. Williams [01:04:42] Latoya Cantrell.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:04:45] That’s right. Mayor Latoya Cantrell.

Michael Twitty [01:04:47] Hercules Posey.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:04:48] Hmm. Born in 1754 and he was a member of the Mount Vernon slave community, widely admired for his culinary skills.

Kalen Allen [01:04:55] I’m going to guess AfroPunk.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:04:58] Close. It’s Afro Nation. According to my research, it’s Samuel Wilson, a.k.a. Falcon.

Jason Johnson [01:05:09] Wrong. Wrong. I am disputing this.

Latosha Brown [01:05:11] Very, very, very rare 99.9 line. And I’m sure that it is Representative John Lewis, who is also from the state of Alabama. That let you know, Christina, we got some goodness come out of Alabama.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:05:23] There’s something in the water in Alabama. And you are absolutely correct.

Diallo Riddle [01:05:26] The harder they come?

Dr. Christina Greer [01:05:29] Close.

Diallo Riddle [01:05:29] Wait. The harder they fall?

Dr. Christina Greer [01:05:31] That’s right. I’m one of those people that just changes one word.

Roy Wood, Jr [01:05:36] I just don’t know nothing today. I’m going to pour myself a little water while you tell me the answer.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:05:40] The answer is Seneca Village, which began in 1825 with the purchase of land by a trustee of the A.M.E. Zion Church.

Roy Wood, Jr [01:05:47] You know why games like this make me nervous? I don’t know if I know enough Black. Do I know enough? How Black am I? Oh, my Lord. They gone, we gone find out in public.

Dr. Christina Greer [01:05:55] So give us a follow. Subscribe and join us on the Blackest Questions.