TheGrio Daily

Dumb people who think they’re right

Episode 108
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“Seeing the other side makes everyone’s argument stronger but you can’t present a straw man argument just to sound smart.” Let’s talk about contrarians. Michael Harriot dives into the straw man arguments that are often used against Black and brown people and why they are problematic. 

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Panama Jackson [00:00:00] You are now listening to theGrio Black Podcast Network Black Culture Amplified.

Michael Harriot [00:00:05] Welcome. And today we’re going to talk about contrarians. You know those people, right? Those people who always say, but what about the people who like to look smart by just arguing with you. I called them strawmen because they always create this straw man argument to buttress their point and ultimately to make themselves seems more. But today, we’re going to talk about a few specific contraian arguments, and that’s why I want to welcome you to theGrio Daily, the only podcast that has but what about dumb people? My mom used to tell me all the time, right? Like, I guess I shouldn’t argue with a dumb person because if somebody is walking by, they won’t know which one is the dummy. Right. And in a sense, contrarians are like that, right? So there are a few arguments or a few kinds of people really that present these arguments that aren’t really based on facts or evidence. What they’re doing is trying to make themselves seem right and they are never going to admit when they are wrong. And to do that, they use these straw man arguments that are constructed to make themselves look smart. One of the most prevalent ones is Yeah, but the Democrats are though, you know, whenever somebody wants to look radical, they won’t offer a solution or say this is the thing that they should be doing. They will just seem radical by criticizing the Democratic Party versus the Republican Party right? And in a strange way, they are kind of right because all contrarian arguments are kind of. Right. Right. But the thing that contrarians would never admit admit is that even though. The Democratic Party might be flawed because there is no perfect political party or any. Well, of course, the Democratic Party has white people in it, right? But. What contrarians won’t admit is that, like, you got to choose one of them. Like like you you choose the Democratic Party, Republican Party, or you risk having your vote really not count. You know, you can vote third party. But in America, the reality is. That third party candidates rarely win. So you’re talking about a theoretical position that. Doesn’t really affect political change. So you can say, yeah, but the Democrats are. Yeah, what Black people need to do is start voting Democrat. But because the other thing about that contrarian an argument. It presumes that Black people and people who vote Democrat don’t already know this thing. Where I like that they are blindly party or chained to the Democratic ideology. And that’s not true. Like, if there’s anything that’s true, Black people are blindly attached to achieving their political goals. And in doing so, we know that the Republican Party is not the party for Black people. So that leaves two choice quite like voting for the Democratic Party or voting for someone in an outside party. But while on the national scene, right is just an impossible uphill climb. I have to admit that I have been critical of the Democratic Party right like just like I’m critical of America. I know America ain’t perfect, right? But I got to live here. So my criticism is aimed at making the Democratic Party more adherent to what I believe instead of just demonizing it, to seem smart, to seem like I am a radical or to object just blindly. Right. Like you can say what the Democratic Party should have been fighting for Universal, but should still be fighting for universal health care. What you can’t say is that I wouldn’t vote for a Democrat because they ain’t got no universal health care. What Republicans don’t either. They don’t have no health care plan. So if you’re going to vote for a political party. That has a universal health care plan. Which one are you going to vote for? The one to add knowledge is that people should have health care and work towards that goal. Or the ones who said, man bump debt. We don’t care about no health care. Pay your own way. Right. That is one of the best straw man arguments that you will find and here’s another one right? When you argue about racism, when you argue about white supremacy, the people who think this is this is the one that I despise the most, people who always are talking about what Black people need to do. Right. What Black people need to do is, you know, start being better parents. If you’re talking about, you know, Black kids in the criminal justice system or Black kids getting arrested or what Black people need to do is work harder or what Black people need to do this. Like what of what Black people need to do straw man people, are the worst kind of Black people and here’s why. Cause before you get to the things that Black people do, right, Mike, you can acknowledge that Black people, some people need to be better parents, whether they’re Black or white. You can acknowledge that some people are not economically smart with money, and you can acknowledge that some people, whether they are Black or white, need to focus on education but If you’re talking about education disparities, if you’re talking about economic disparities, if you’re talking about jobs, if you’re talking about politics, the first thing you have to acknowledge before you get to Black people is all of the things and all of the systems in place that prevent economic inequalities, that prevent equality in the criminal justice system. You’ve got to acknowledge the police. You got to acknowledge the judges who said as Black people, you got to acknowledge that the employers who throw Black people’s resumes in the trash when they notice that it is a Black sounding name, you’ve got to acknowledge the education system that prefers white students, that underfunds majority Black schools. You’ve got to acknowledge politics, you’ve got to acknowledge voter suppression. You’ve got to do all of that stuff before you get to Black people. And if you get to Black people before you doing all the stuff you are dumb, you’re presenting a false argument just to sound smart, but you really sound dumb. You are presenting a stupid straw man that’s built on nothing but hubris and hate right? And so, I don’t mind people arguing against a point that I’m trying to make because again, like seeing the other side makes everyone’s argument stronger, right? But you can’t present a straw man argument just to sound smart. But here’s the real problem with all of those. But what about all of those straw man arguments. All the but what Black people need to do things is it presumes that Black people are dumb, in presumes that all the Black people will vote for the Democratic Party don’t know what they’re doing. That all the Black scholars who have written books in academic research about specific subjects don’t know what they’re talking about. But you, “Mr. But What About, Mr. Straw Man.” You know better than all and all smart Black people because you are smart and the Black people are dumb. And if you’re smart and you’re taking the white side, the. But what about side then? What you’re saying? By definition is that white people are smart. And if you want to make that argument, it’s okay. Don’t come around here with it because. Over here. If you subscribe to this podcast, we are downloading the grio app. We’re telling our friends about theGrio Daily, and over here we leave every episode with a Black saying and today’s Black sayings. But what about dumb people? If you like what you heard, please give us a five star review. Download theGrio app. Subscribe to the show and to share it with everyone you know. Please email all questions, suggestions and compliments to podcast at theGrio dot com.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:10:11] I’m political scientist, author and professor Dr. Christina Greer, and I’m host of The Blackest Questions on theGrio’s Black Podcast Network. This person invented ranch dressing around 1950. Who are they?

Marc Lamont Hill [00:10:24] I have no idea.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:10:25] This all began as an exclusive Black history trivia party at my home in Harlem with family and friends. And they got so popular it seemed only right to share the fun with our Grio listeners. Each week we invite a familiar face on the podcast to play. What was the name of the person who was an enslaved chief cook for George Washington and later ran away to freedom? In 1868 this university was the first in the country to open a medical school that welcomed medical students of all races, genders and social classes. What university was it?

Roy Wood Jr. [00:10:59] This is why I like doing stuff with you, because I leave educated. I was not taught this in Alabama Public Schools.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:11:05] Question three. You ready?

Eboni K. Williams [00:11:06] Yes. Let me try and redeem myself.

Amanda Seales [00:11:08] How do we go from Kwanzaa to like these obscure stories, darling? It’s like the New York Times crossword from a monday to a Saturday.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:11:18] Right or wrong. All we care about is the journey and having some fun while we do it.

Kalen Allen [00:11:23] I’m excited and also a little nervous.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:11:26] Oh. No need to be nervous. And as I tell all of my guests, this is an opportunity for us to educate ourselves because Black history is American history. So we’re going to have some fun. Listen, some people get zero out of five, some people get five out of five, but it doesn’t matter. We’re just going be on a little intellectual journey together.

Eboni K. Williams [00:11:42] Latoya Cantrell?

Dr. Christina Greer [00:11:43] That’s right. Mayor Latoya Cantrell.

Michael Twitty [00:11:46] Hercules Posey.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:11:48] Hmm. Born in 1754 and he was a member of the Mount Vernon slave community, widely admired for his culinary skills.

Kalen Allen [00:11:54] I’m going to guess Afropop.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:11:56] Close it’s Afro Nation. So last year, according to my research, and Samuel Wilson, a.k.a. Falcon.

Jason Johnson [00:12:08] Wrong wrong, I am, I am disputing this.

Latosha Brown [00:12:11] Very, very, very rare 99.9 line. And I’m sure that it is Representative John Lewis, who is also from the state of Alabama. Then that you know, Christina, we got some good this come out of Alabama.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:12:22] There is something in the water in Alabama. And you are absolutely correct.

Diallo Riddle [00:12:25] The harder they come.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:12:29] Close!

Diallo Riddle [00:12:29] Oh, wait, the harder they fall?

Dr. Christina Greer [00:12:30] That’s right. I’m one of those people that just changes one word. I mean, I know kids who do.

Roy Wood Jr. [00:12:35] I just don’t know nothing today, I’m gonna pour myself a little water why you tell me the answer.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:12:40] The answer is Seneca Village, which began in 1825 with the purchase of land by a trustee of the A.M.E. Zion Church.

Roy Wood Jr. [00:12:47] You know why games like this make me nervous? I don’t know if I know enough Black. Do I know? And, um, how Black am I? Oh, my Lord. They. They hope we don’t find out in public.

Dr. Christina Greer [00:12:55] So give us a follow. Subscribe and join us on The Blackest Questions.