AUP EP. 16: Black Women in Comedy
Transcribed: Cameron Blackwell
Jul 15, 2021
Yvonne Orji: [00:00:02] This is now a moment where I’m like, OK, whatever gems I learn, whatever mistakes I made, whatever successes I have, like, let me put that out now for the people. So because I’m in it in real time, like you may be two steps behind me, but I gotchu. [00:00:18][15.9]
Cortney Wills: [00:00:20] Hello and welcome to Acting Up, the podcast that dives deep into the world of TV and film that highlights our people, our communities and our stories. I’m your host, Courtney Wills, entertainment director at theGrio. And this week we’re speaking with Amber Ruffin and Yvonne Orji as we discuss what’s going on with Black women in comedy.
I just got back from the Tribeca Film Festival, which was in person in New York this past week and a half, and there was so much art that was born out of this pandemic, out of this lockdown, out of this insane time. It was really amazing to see. It was kind of therapeutic. It was actually kind of difficult at times because, in fact, number one you know, this is the first trip I’ve taken in over a year. This is the first time I was out with strangers. I’m in airports, I’m on airplanes, I’m in cabs like I’m in crowded spaces. I definitely wasn’t, like, skipping around town, like yay were free, it was I was very aware. But it was also quite eye opening to the fact that we are open again, and things are changing and like we are approaching at least, you know, post pandemic. And we’ve all been affected by it in so many ways. But I think that watching it on screen chronicled as if it was something that is done and something that I was able to watch compacted from beginning to end in an hour and a half or two hours, unexpectedly made my mind start processing some of those emotions. And it was heavy. That happened with several of the titles that I saw there. I saw so many good things. I saw so many thought provoking things. One of the best things that I saw was Radio City Music Hall. The first time that they’ve opened since they shut down was with something billed as The Untitled Dave Chappelle documentary. And what it ended up being was this magnificently beautiful documentary about the comedy shows that we know he was doing out in Ohio when he lives Yellow Springs. That kind of were a secret, I think at the time. He had permission from the governor. It started small and grew and grew. I feel entirely like left out of the whole thing. Dave, if you’re listening next time, please, I would really like to go. I would not tell about it. And I’m actually not sure how much about the documentary I’m allowed to talk about right now because it hasn’t been released to the public. So I’m going to give you is that it was so moving. It was hilarious. It was done very, very, very well. And I cannot wait for you all to see it. But I will say that kind of buckle up for the art that is about to hit the big and small screens that was born of covid because it is going to make you process. Some of you have been processing all along. Others of us, I think, are able to kind of compartmentalize. But there is a lot of art coming that’s going to touch on so many angles of what we’ve all been through, what we’re all still going through. And it was pretty incredible to see. I moderated a Tribeca Talks event on Saturday, and that was at the premiere of The One and Only Dick Gregory, that is another documentary that I can’t wait for everyone to see. It premiered there at Tribeca on June 28th, executive produced by Lena Waithe and Kevin Hart, directed by Andre Gaines. It was so eye opening like I had no I knew about Dick Gregory as a comedian. I mean, he is the comedian. He is the father of the kind of comedy we see from Black comedians. Now, he was the first one to go up there and tell jokes about what was going on in the world, tell jokes about racism to white people like back in the day. That’s what he was doing. All of this social commentary, talking about oppression, talking about getting hemmed up by the police, talking about the racists that chased you down the street or the guy that called you the N-word like they were not doing before Dick Gregory. And so this documentary kind of encompassed I mean, from the early days of that, his entire life from beginning to end was there. And what a life it was. I somehow have lived all these years not knowing what a humongous contribution Dick Gregory made to the fight for civil rights, to bringing health and holistic health and nutritional information to Black communities, putting his money where his mouth is and giving his bazillions of dollars away to all of these causes that he wholeheartedly supported, essentially left his throne as the king of comedy to pursue a one hundred percent like he just left it, like when Chappelle left the Chappelle’s Show. It’s like if he went to Africa and started building houses and cleaning water and saving lives and never, ever stopped and, you know, died relatively broke. So all that to say that film is going to premiere on Showtime on the Fourth of July, which is incredibly appropriate, because if it does nothing else, it solidifies and explains why Dick Gregory is a true American hero.
We’re talking about Dick Gregory, we’re talking about Dave Chappelle, that is perfect because what we’re talking about today on Acting Up is this freaking renaissance happening with Black comics right now. I have never seen so many shows on the air like helmed created executive produced by Black folks, Black women specifically. Right now on TV, you’ve got PAUSE with Sam Jay at HBO. You’ve got the Amber Ruffin Show at Peacock. You’ve got Robin Thede killing it with another season of a Black Lady Sketch Show. You’ve got the incomparable satire skills of Ziwe over on Showtime right now. You’ve got Phoebe Robinson with Doing the Most with Phoebe Robinson. Black women in comedy are just killing it. We’ve got two of them on the show today. One of them is Amber Ruffin, who is such a fantastic, innovative comedian. Obviously, you know, she holds her own late night talk show, The Amber Show, on Petcock. And she has been making us laugh for years. She worked extensively on the Seth Meyers show. She wrote for the first season of a Black Lady Sketch Show. She in January, she coauthored a book with her sister titled You’ll Never Believe What Happened to Lacey. Crazy Stories about Racism and hit The New York Times Best Sellers List. Just this week, Amber Ruffin announced that she’s heading to Tokyo to basically cover the Olympics for Peacock.
I sat down with this comedic genius to talk about how she cultivated the culture of her own late night show, how she curated this very melanated writer’s room and how she manages to really push boundaries when it comes to the kinds of jokes she tells, the kind of commentary that she’s making about politics, about our culture, about our society. It’s some really groundbreaking stuff. And take a listen.
Oh, my gosh, so I’m so excited to have you as a guest today. You’ve been doing some incredible things lately, even throughout all of the chaos that these last 12, 14 months have brought us. And I think that it’s such a refreshing experience to be able to turn the TV on at night and hear from you, especially through all of this chaos. I was just rewatching a segment that you did right after the capital riots, and it reminded me how important it is right after that crazy situation. We had a voice of reason, late night telling us what happened, making us laugh not so much about it, but through it and also just telling the truth. What is it like? What has it been like for you to be able to have this platform at such a tumultuous time? [00:09:00][519.8]
Amber Ruffin: [00:09:00] It is therapy to have this platform in this tumultuous time, like it hurts to watch all of these horrible things happen in our country and then to be able to talk about it with a writers room and then an audience. It feels great and it does help work through it. My goal is always to just make sure people don’t feel insane, you know, because when the protests were happening, people were like, well, I don’t get it. These people were. And that was making my face hot. And I couldn’t think it truly was driving me bonkers. And I wanted to ungaslight everyone as best as I could. [00:09:49][49.1]
Cortney Wills: [00:09:50] Obviously, we don’t see a lot of women that look like you on late night television. The last time I was having a conversation like this, it was with Robin Thede when she premiered her show. That was too short lived, in my opinion. But talk to me a little bit about the journey to get here and what it took to kind of take, you know, take this spot and get this kind of platform. [00:10:14][24.0]
Amber Ruffin: [00:10:15] My journey to the Amber and show was. Weird, you know, I started improvising and was an actor, writer, improviser at different theaters, boom, Chicago in Amsterdam and Second City in Chicago, and it prepared us for all kinds of things, like when you write for television, you have days to just write a thing and then you perform it. If it goes good, great. If it doesn’t throw it in the trash, nobody ever sees it. But when you perform on a stage, it’s super difficult. Three hundred people see it every time you do it, you have zero time. Someone shouts out lemons and then you have to instantly sing a song about lemons, you can’t sit down and write it down. So I feel like this is super leisurely pace to work at, you know, even though it’s like two shows, a need to generate a ton of sketches, like anything’s easier than making a song in an instant. So it doesn’t feel as scary as it may be should, but that didn’t answer your question. The answer to your question is it took a lot of flexibility for me to get here. Like when I started at late night with Seth Meyers, I thought. Oh, maybe I’ll wright, and hopefully I’ll get good enough so that they won’t fire me. And that was my that was my thought for the whole first year here. And then I realized, oh, I’m going to be performing quite a bit. So then I started writing to that and they never balked at the idea of putting me on ever. So I just kept writing increasingly weird and long bits until I accidentally ended up with proof that I could have my own show. And so it was easier to sell when we had all this proof which. It was an accident, really. [00:12:23][128.0]
Cortney Wills: [00:12:24] Yeah, of course, we know that you worked extensively on the Seth Meyers show, just like we know that Robin worked extensively on the Jon Stewart show. And I feel like the conversation around making space for shows like this is always like the target demo doesn’t necessarily tune in at that time. Right. Like you’re not specifically talking to Black women. And will they tune in and will they support and you know, all of this. But then you look and you go, there have been Black women writing the jokes for the white men for years, making everybody laugh, Black, white, female, male, anyone that, like you said, is proof that you really do have the chops we really can pull from a place that isn’t just intended to reach one audience and certainly not just intended to reach the African-American audience. What has it been like for you to be able to kind of define your voice and serve as proof positive that there absolutely can be spaces like this for people like? [00:13:29][64.5]
Amber Ruffin: [00:13:29] Well, Black people have always had to be able to do both, you know, and that is across the board. That’s proven hairstylists. That’s writers. That’s stylists, it’s everyone. So what I liken it to is we have always had to, as comedy writers who write for white people, we’ve always had to take our ideas and then change them or at least check them to make sure that white people in general can understand and handle it. So we have to change our references to maybe not the first thing in our mind. Like you can’t be Babyface. It can’t be done. It has to be Michael Bolton. OK, then the jokester and so would write on a Black show. All of those weights are removed and your very first thought is one hundred percent right, everybody understands it and you don’t have to use any special language. You don’t have to change the way you speak. You know, I tell my writers I want exactly what you would say, exactly the way you would say it. Every one of my writers almost is also a performer. And so I’m like, just give me what you would write for you to say and then I will get your delicious laughs. [00:14:44][74.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:14:44] Yes. What is your writer’s room look like? [00:14:47][3.1]
Amber Ruffin: [00:14:48] My writers room looks like Jenny Hegel, who is my writing partner at Late Night with Seth Meyers. She is Puerto Rican. And and there is Duane Perkins’s, who is Black. Shantira Jackson was Black Ashley Nicole Black who is Black and sometimes Michael Harriott, who is Black. And poor, Ian Morgan, who is a white guy from Late Night with Seth Meyers. And so our writers room is both Black. It’s also mostly gay, I think, where majority gay. [00:15:25][37.5]
Cortney Wills: [00:15:26] Wow. Now, did you go in with that as an intention of being a very diverse writers room? And if so, why was that important to you? [00:15:33][7.3]
Amber Ruffin: [00:15:34] I wanted a Black writer’s room so that I could because I know we are processing gross things and I don’t want people to have to do that in an environment where they can be in any kind of emotional danger. So I just wanted to create a safe space. I mean, if we have to talk about all these painful things, then let’s do it with family, you know, and when we have our morning meetings and stuff and things do get sad, you can look at, you know, six people who understand completely, you know what you’re going through and feel the exact same way you do. So, I mean. After almost never having that, it is magic. It feels great, it feels great. It feels exactly like you think it would feel except better. [00:16:30][56.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:16:33] Oh gosh, I really love that. You know, I, I can relate. I work at theGrio. Thank God so many of my coworkers have been navigating all of this craziness right there with me. And exactly like you don’t have to put on that extra layer, that extra mask as we’re already going through. So much. I want to talk about, you know, the kind of changing Hollywood landscape. Right. And how much I think progress has been made. And then as well as how many sweeping declarations from networks to brands to studios committing themselves to more rigorous efforts at diversity and inclusion and not sexually harassing people and doing things that they already probably should not have been doing. Is it is it tangible yet as someone on the inside, is it perceivable? Do you feel like you suddenly have any more agency to call shots to demand respect, to get paid what you’re worth now? Or is that is that a moving target? [00:17:41][68.3]
Amber Ruffin: [00:17:42] I think that there are a lot of tangible changes. There’s dang it, I forget the name of it. David DuVernay initiative already exists Array Compliance. And everyone who I have to do business with is like, OK, these are the ways we are going to become Array Compliant. [00:18:02][20.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:18:03] But wow, you pretty much getting the standard for sure. [00:18:07][3.6]
Amber Ruffin: [00:18:07] I mean, it’s so exciting. Like it I two things like yes. I physically see more Black people in these meetings. Yes. A thousand times. Yes. And also people are seeing themselves as the problem. And that was never the case. We were always the problem. Always it was always you writers aren’t good enough. You actors aren’t good enough. I’m sorry. You’re just not good enough. And now they’re like, oh, the way we judge you is dumb. So because the focus has shifted. I think things are starting to shift because until you can do wrong, you’re not going to change. But once you realize, oh, I’ve been doing dirt, then it is possible for you to become good. So I do think we are trending towards. A more inclusivity and just like an easier place to work. [00:19:12][64.9]
Cortney Wills: [00:19:13] Yeah, do you find yourself being tapped for guidance and advice on how to actually achieve that, whether on your own show at Peacocke or just in the industry at large? Do you feel like people are are actually asking the right questions on what the right moves could be? [00:19:32][18.3]
Amber Ruffin: [00:19:32] I think people are starting with staffing, it seems like. And that’s great. Great, great. But if you’re inviting people into a house that’s on fire, you probably aren’t doing really good, you know what I mean? So, I mean, yes, it’s a great. Also, you know, let’s real let’s clean house from the top down, let’s clean it up, because these problems didn’t just start. You got to get rid of the root. [00:20:15][42.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:20:17] There anything that’s still hard for you to joke about or laugh about, like anything that you, even for yourself, feels a little bit too fresh or off limits or like it’s hard for you to find that balance of sensitivity. And this shit is real and it’s happening. [00:20:35][18.7]
Amber Ruffin: [00:20:36] Well, I think every comedian likes to walk the tightrope like we all love to be like, is this too far? Is this too far? Where or how far can we take it? And I also think, like, my goal is to have fun with everybody. Yeah. My goal is never to make sure that everyone knows that that was never my deal. So I rarely find myself joking about things that I shouldn’t. I think, like, people are sad. There’s like some certainly some topics that are off limits where you think maybe you could get a laugh, but people aren’t ready. But I never like. Yeah, I don’t think I’m 100 percent in danger of that. Excellent question. [00:21:26][50.1]
Cortney Wills: [00:21:27] Marinate when I get back to me one day. OK, who makes you laugh all the time. Who who do you watch. Were you a fan of. And do you think it’s just hysterical. [00:21:36][9.0]
Amber Ruffin: [00:21:37] I think my favorite things to like look at these doofuses on Twitter, it’s my favorite. Like I like, of course, Michelle Butoh. Every time I turn on the TV and I’m watching a TV show she’s not in, I’m like, how stupid are you that you are not casting her in your shit? What is wrong with you? So there’s her. Robin Thede is just literally as a human being is extremely funny, like, yes, she’s a great writer and blah blah blah. But she just to be around is hilarious. But yeah, I like these Twitter children. They are killing me. There’s a girl named Lisa Beasley on Twitter and I assume TikTok excuse me, I’m quite old. And she posts videos of her doing impressions that it’s killing me. It’s like Lori Lightfoot the mayor of Chicago and it’s so great. It’s just a beautiful impression. And I was watching her stuff the other day and I had to just be like, you never see this. You never see, like, fun impressions from a Black woman. You never see it like I can’t name. A woman who does fun Black impressions of bunches of I don’t like it. Yeah, she’s my new next thing in my brain, I think she’s great. [00:23:04][86.9]
Cortney Wills: [00:23:04] Awesome. Such a pleasure. Thank you so much for joining us. We are such huge fans of yours at the Grio and look forward to everything that you have coming our way.
Amber Ruffin: Thank you for having me.
Cortney Wills: You’re welcome. You have a great day.
We’ll also be talking to the phenomenal Yvonne Orji who just wrapped the final season of Insecure you guys, and I’m sure, like me, we were following their Instagram feeds last week, watching them cry as they were like Issa’s Instagram, like last seen with Yvonne or last moment with Jay. I mean, it was so I was crying for days, just watching them. I spoke to Yvonne just a couple days after that final wrap about her magnificent and truly astounding meteoric rise that really kicked off to the mainstream with Insecure. And now five seasons later, she’s got an HBO comedy special under her belt. She just released a hilarious and also really heartwarming book called Bamboozled by Jesus. And so we’ll talk to her about that, about where she’s been, about where she’s going and how she’s kind of kept all together throughout. [00:24:20][75.9]
Yvonne Orji: [00:24:33] Yeah, this is a very sexy LA vibe. I’m coming over from. [00:24:37][3.9]
Cortney Wills: [00:24:38] Come over we’ll have our own wrap party. [00:24:39][0.9]
Yvonne Orji: [00:24:41] This girl, please, please. We’re all just trying to. We were all just trying to get through last week. Just get through [00:24:48][7.7]
Cortney Wills: [00:24:49] all those tears on Instagram feed. Had me crying in my room watching them so beautiful and also, like, legitimately sad, like very sad that this is over because it’s just been such an experience to be a part of, obviously, as a journalist, but also as a fan. It’s just been such a big experience, I think, for all of us. [00:25:12][23.2]
Yvonne Orji: [00:25:13] It’s funny because, you know, those are real fear that was going on for so many reasons, like my girl, the show, so many reasons. And I think people who have been, like, rocking with us when we were just like little engine that could until then becoming like, you know, Emmy nominated is like we were really just out here trying to enjoy life, enjoy each other and do a show that we’ve got we would like. And then other people rocked with us, we were crying for a lot of reasons. I think a lot of people felt the same sentiment that we felt. [00:25:44][30.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:25:44] Absolutely. We were crying right along with you. And it’s only been five years, but it feels like it’s been kind of part of the fabric of our culture for a lot longer than that. And I think it’s because at least for me, I mean, I was I was covering in season one and like hoping there was a season two and like watching it grow every season into this thing that has catapulted HBO into a different bracket when it comes to attracting Black viewers to all of your individual careers. I mean, look how far you have come professionally. Look at Issa’s career, like so much has kind of sprung off from Insecure. It’s like nothing I’ve ever seen. [00:26:25][40.7]
Yvonne Orji: [00:26:26] It was a gift that kept on given to be on because so many people identify with our characters. It then became like, we want,Jay Ellis and this thing or, you know, we want a Molly-type. You know, my my big joke that I not joke with the way I know that this show really hit part of the zeitgeist was when I was asked to speak at a law firm when I was like, wait, I know I’m not a real life lawyer. And I was like, no, but a lot of the things your character experience are things that like real lawyers, experiences that we just like. And the for the Black lawyers at the firm, they were like, we’re so appreciative that you got to talk to them because you could say things that we have been feeling, but we can’t say because our jobs are on the line. You know, like you could you can basically be our decoy and say all the things that need to be said for them to hear, but without us getting fired. [00:27:23][57.5]
Cortney Wills: [00:27:26] That’s pretty funny. I was thinking about what your character Molly represented that was so innovative. I mean, aside from, like the friendship and the story and just seeing real young Black people and friendships and relationships, Molly In particular to me really filled a void, the void of seeing a successful Black woman who’s very successful professionally and messy as hell. These other places almost like like humanize the Black women boss bitches, please. And you did that. [00:27:57][31.3]
Yvonne Orji: [00:27:58] Yeah, no, absolutely. I think we’re multi- hyphened, right? We’re not just the mother. It’s like CEO, mess, but supermoms in therapy, but flawed, you know, just like we created characters that in their own way, we’re Insecure. Right in different. Even when you go back to like season three, you know, we got to see two or three. We got to see Daniel Crat because he had been like this oo sexy time, oo he’s a boss. And then we saw, like, somebody else in his world that was poppin in a way that he wasn’t you got to see his own insecurities as a Black man, as an entrepreneur, as an up and coming artist. And you’re just like, oh, the the glass is not they got some cracks in it. And that’s all of our characters have cracks in them. [00:28:49][51.5]
Cortney Wills: [00:28:50] Yeah, absolutely. What was there one episode or even a scene that you hated filming that was just hard to get through. [00:28:59][9.4]
Yvonne Orji: [00:29:01] Yeah. Yeah. Oh yes. I think everyone will know, like every one of the actors, the Coachella episode was hard. And then we have an episode this season that was just torture because torture for so many different reasons, for so many different actors. We got through it. But it was one of those like can we never do? Oh, that’s right. This is the last season. So we don’t have to worry about it? great. [00:29:27][26.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:29:30] Cannot wait to see the. Obviously, we’ll all be waited with bated breath until this this next and final season of Insecure comes out, but luckily we’ve got more stuff coming from you. This fantastic book, Bamboozled by Jesus, is so much fun. I can’t wait to get into that. And also, what is it called? The vacation, you know, [00:29:54][23.3]
Yvonne Orji: [00:29:54] Vacation friends. [00:29:55][1.0]
Cortney Wills: [00:29:56] What what is that? What are you doing? Tell me a little bit about that project. [00:30:00][4.2]
Yvonne Orji: [00:30:01] Yeah, it’s with John Cena, a Little Rel myself, a young lady named Meredith and basically Rek and I are this couple. And we go on vacation. You know, you meet every time you go on vacation, you meet folks that are interesting. You kind of befriend them for the time you’re on vacation. You don’t expect to become lifelong friends because you know what happens on vacation you think stays on vacation. Yes. And then, you know, they kind of find us in our real life and they think that we are an extension of that vacation. And we’re like, we don’t we don’t want this. And they invade our space. [00:30:34][33.5]
Cortney Wills: [00:30:37] That sounds like a lot of fun. What was it like kind of transitioning from the small screen to that project? [00:30:42][5.5]
Yvonne Orji: [00:30:43] It was cool to work with cool people. You know, Rel was on Insecure and then get to work together again in this film. So it was really cool, [00:30:50][6.6]
Cortney Wills: [00:30:50] I think that. Do you ever have moments where it hits you like, man, I’m kind of here [00:30:55][4.6]
Yvonne Orji: [00:30:56] Nah because I’m still getting there. John Cena is the get, Lil Rel is the get. I’m pretty sure their fan base would say “I’m going to see John Cena.” None of us know who Yvonne Orji is. I haven’t done enough. One day I’m gonna make John Cena bank and that’s how I’ll know we’re the get. Right now, I’m not the get. [00:31:15][19.3]
Cortney Wills: [00:31:16] That’s how we’ll know right on with the zeros on the checks. Yvonne, this book Bamboozled by Jesus of course is just as hilarious as I expected it to be, but it is also just extremely inspiring and uplifting. And I feel like you really put put yourself out there with this project. What made you want to write this book and why now? [00:31:40][24.7]
Yvonne Orji: [00:31:41] Yeah, I mean, you know, trust me, with everything that got going on, writing a book was not necessarily a thing that I needed to do. I was like, I’m good, and God was like, actually daughter. And I was like, spam, you’ve got to stop with this. But, you know, I’m busy. Yeah, you’re doing all this other stuff for you. Here’s what I want you to do for me. And I was like, cool. And I felt like I had, like, reached the natural end to phase one of where where my life is. Right. And there are so many people who are up and coming artists or transitioning, especially after a pandemic and the global quarantine. It’s like people are coming out and realizing, like I have to pivot, you know, or this job that I was in, like, I don’t know that it brings me that much joy anymore. So I’m going to try something new. But like, I’m I’m about to start from the bottom when I was at the top and this other thing. So people are really experiencing their own form of bamboozlement when they’re being called to like shift Yeah, yeah. I was writing this book at a time where I’m like, yo, I’ve had my shift and I’ve been successful in my shift. And so this is now a moment where I’m like, OK, let me– whatever Gems I learn, whatever mistakes I made, whatever successes I have. Like, let me put that out now for the people because I’m in it in real time. Like, you may be two steps behind me, but I gotchu. I’m going to go on to the next phase and I’m will be learning that. And whatever I learn from that, I’m a get you on the back end. You I mean, so it just makes sense that I might let me share what I’ve learned and like, put a pin in this phase because, you know, we started with the bottom. Now we here and hope by the grace of God, I don’t have to go back to the bottom. But for the people who feel like they’re back, they’re coming up from the bottom. Here you go. Years. Here’s where for me, hopefully. Or for you. [00:33:25][103.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:33:25] Yes. And you know, that’s so interesting because I think you’re exactly right. Like no one has come through this last one. Are we at now like eighteen months, almost like no one has come out of this unscathed, unchanged. And I think that now I think yesterday California reopened and there was a big sigh of relief, but also a little bit of like what I kind of forgot how to do this. I kind of took a long time to adjust and learn how to live my life and navigate my responsibilities under the parameters of of covid and quarantine and social unrest. And what am I going to go out and get shot today? And then it’s like, OK, just kidding. We’re done. Be free and marry.
Yvonne Orji: [00:34:17] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Well, that was also the bamboozlement of Jesus right there because I wanted this book to come in 2020. I was like, sure enough I’m going to have my comedy special. Then I was coming off of Emmy noms, I was like, look, this, this my trifecta. Come on baby. And then the world shutdown. I wait, what do you mean, so it’s not gonna come out this year? Cool, cool. And it God knew, nah because next year when everybody is coming up off their own bamboozled journey, this will resonate even more. And I think I could see that I didn’t know I was gonna be greedy. [00:34:50][33.1]
Cortney Wills: [00:34:51] It also means reading the book kind of. Made me realize that, you know, we’ve been talking so much and focus so much on dealing with and navigating trauma, right, and like fear, whether it’s covid or, you know, the aftermath of George Floyd or that crazy election, I think it was really easy to focus on the negative and how tough it was to navigate. But there were also so many instances where for me at least, God was just showing up and showing out, like on such a wide level. I remember at the beginning when people were like banging pots and pans and clapping for nurses and shit when they went to the hospitals. Like things like that were just so beautiful about this. I was looking for my phone and I saw that like during the George Floyd protests, there was a day where I went down to my little tiny town of Claremont and I was like, sobbing, happy tears because there were so many white people out there protesting and holding Black Lives Matter signs. And I think it’s easy to glaze over those moments where where, you know, God and his power were just really evident on a on a big scale. And I thought that this book was a really nice reminder to kind of bring us back to that. [00:36:13][82.0]
Yvonne Orji: [00:36:13] Absolutely. It really was for me. I’m just like he is present even in the midst of a lot of times what happens is believers of people who are beliefs are like, well, if God is real, then why is like, oh, you asking the wrong questions fam. If that’s that’s not the question to ask, that’s like that’s going to happen. It happened in the Bible is walking the earth. It ain’t that he don’t care about is what happens Who do we become in the midst of of happening? You know, how do we grow, how do we learn? How do we use that to pivot into what our true calling our two purpose is. And so, you know, it really is that reminder. But in the midst of this stuff, it’s like if you get the perspective that’s essential. You see his hand still working in the midst of the best of happening. [00:36:56][42.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:36:57] Yes. Yes. Yvonne, I always kind of wanted to ask you, like what? And especially now that, you know, fine, you didn’t have your trifecta here in 2020, but it was still a real big year for you and your career. And obviously it’s still only growing. Has it become any harder or have there been times where like as your success grows, as your star kind of rises, staying connected to your faith has been a challenge or has felt, you know, tested or you wondered whether or not you could kind of keep that at the forefront of your overall image. Like, have you ever felt pressure to tone down the Jesus stuff? I wonder if anybody said that to you. [00:37:40][43.9]
Yvonne Orji: [00:37:41] Uhh, no because it’s not toned up or toned down. It is just its own tone to mean like no one’s ever said to me tonight, the Nigerian stuff, because, I mean, like, I’m like, I don’t know. How do you mean? Like, it’s all intertwined. So it’s like if you tone down the Nigerian stuff you tone Yvonne Orji,if you tone down the Jesus, you tone down, so, it’s like if you want the me that I am, you get all right. But, you know, in terms of like obviously pre Insecure season one, I had nothing but time to like really just developed my faith really just commune and fellowship and luxuriate and lather in all my time that I get that Jesus, you know, he bless me, we pop in now. And that’s the thing that, if I can be honest, has suffered. And so I like to take time to like recharge and rejuvenate because I never want to get to a point where, like, he blessed me and I forgot about it was like, that’s not bad, but that’s trash. That’s the that’s a surefire way for all the blessings that just dry up. Yeah. And and it’s not that I’m trying to connect them so that the blessings don’t stop but it’s like for me, his source. Right. So it’s funny because he also knows, like like God knew that I was going to get this Emmy. Right. And it’s like the time that you had kind of like when you’re single you got time for your friends like, come on, girl, let’s go to Greece, what, we’re going to Miami for a weekend, one night in Miami up. You know that you get married. It’s like you got different priorities. Everything shifts it’s like girl. I mean, maybe a week in October we got a plan and I told her we only went down. So it was the same thing as like it’s not that you don’t want that community, that fellowship in that time and that bonding, but it’s like it’s a lot that takes your energy is a lot that takes your time, etc.. And so for me, it’s like still trying to keep that connection in the middle of everything good that he’s doing for me. Right. To just be like, hey, I don’t ever want you to think I don’t appreciate you taking for granted like we still here. I just need to catch my breath. And I promise this me and you. And you know, and so that’s that’s been the challenge for me. [00:39:51][130.4]
Cortney Wills: [00:39:52] Yeah. I mean, exactly. Just like managing time. I mean, even managing relationships like. Obviously, we get to see you with some of your friends that are also kind of all of our favorites like E and lovely, respectable twerking on duty. Yes, we saw that [00:40:12][19.9]
Yvonne Orji: [00:40:13] spectacle twerking there. [00:40:15][1.9]
Cortney Wills: [00:40:17] But I mean, like your friends you had before this, your friends who are not in the industry and carving out time to, like, contribute to relationships like that, I think, of course, inevitably changes as your play gets more and more full. Have you found that kind of balance between, you know, Yvonne, the career and the star and the actor and Yvonne? Yvonne. [00:40:40][22.6]
Yvonne Orji: [00:40:41] Yeah, I mean, I’m finding this I mean, the quarantine. And I really at the time, like, it really is important. Like twenty, twenty one. My my words for this year were ease and flow because I really I want to tap back into that like I did the grind. I mean you read in the book, it’s like I’ve done everything that you’re seeing is is fruit. Right. And I’m just like there’s got to be another way. What’s the way where I’ve done the hard thing? And now instead of chasing, things are attracting, you know, I’m attracting things. And I’m it’s a really different seat to be to be in because now you’re like, all right, I’m also going to make time for people I care about. I’m going to only do things that I really want to do. I’m going to. And so it’s just like that’s when you make time for you. You make time for the people you love because it’s like work is dope work is great. But work like, you know, you hear all them nobody wants on their tombstone. Here lies Yvonne, she did a lot of work, feel like. All right, cool. I’m glad that I gave people stuff but like did she enjoy life. Yeah. It’s like, you know, as a child of immigrants, it’s like I’ve seen that, like my mom was that woman. It’s like everybody knew her to be hard working. And I got that gene and me. But it’s like, cool, cool, cool, cool. I also want to enjoy some of the fruits of this labor because just working for workings sake,we got to do better. [00:42:09][87.7]
Cortney Wills: [00:42:09] Yeah. The last thing I wanted to talk to you about, I had the pleasure of kind of focusing on the fact that we’re starting to see a lot more representation, I think on screen, especially on the small screen of immigrants from Africa and of life in Africa, food from Africa, careers like yours and Luvi’s, and Folake’s like actually picking up steam where you guys are able to kind of open the door, open a window at least, and kind of show us what that journey has been like. And so I wonder for you if that shift is perceptible, like, are you noticing that at least for me, it seems like there we’re starting to move the needle a little bit in how Africa and Africans are portrayed on American TV? [00:43:02][52.0]
Yvonne Orji: [00:43:03] Oh, absolutely. I mean, I have a whole show that’s that’s coming out called First Gen. That’s that’s literally going to be about the first generation Nigerian American experience. And this show I’ve been tryingto get made since twenty fifteen and we only just sold it to Disney plus like, you know, at the top of the year. So yeah. Yeah we and I know that’s because like the industry is catching up to what I’ve always done. I started the show in twenty fifteen because I was like yo I believe that like at this point everybody knows Nigerian interacted with one, their best friend is one day back there is one there. Their child’s soccer team made us one like all of the above and trying to like get the folks who green lights though to like see the same thing I saw it was a hard gamble, but then cut. You’ve got the Black Panthers, you’ve got you got the you know, you got the Delon Wright challenges. Whatever it is, you have enough creators of color and performers of color from that. You got Uzo Aduba, David Oyelowo. You name it. You know, like I said yesterday and even someone like Trevor Noah, he’s not Nigerian, he’s South African. He leans into his Africanness on The Daily Show and all of these reasons and more. When you then go to sell the show that you’ve been trying to sell for five years, it makes more sense. Y’all just needed time to catch up cool, cuz here we are let’s rock. [00:44:36][81.2]
Cortney Wills: [00:44:36] This I cannot wait to see that. When might, when might we see that show. [00:44:41][5.3]
Yvonne Orji: [00:44:41] You know, we, we have it in the works, hopefully, you know, I don’t want to put a date out there, jinx anything but hopefully sooner rather than later. [00:44:48][6.7]
Cortney Wills: [00:44:50] Did you see High on the Hog on Netflix. [00:44:52][1.9]
Yvonne Orji: [00:44:52] Oh my God. I was I started watching that like last week. And then I have to go to see because we had a four o’clock call time like I was. I was. I was suffering myself. I was like, I need to watch something that’s not iinsecure. Like, girl it’s midnight, if you don’t want to go to sleep right now, you’re right. So, yeah, I started watching it. But just just to see the content and just to see Nigerien, just to see, like, how the food that we enjoy back home translate to some of the food here. I was like, oh, so I got to finish it [00:45:25][32.3]
Cortney Wills: [00:45:25] And then we finally like Top Chef this season started like doing challenges that were based on African food, having some more African chefs. And it’s like it is really such a shame to realize just how much of a lack of connection and a lack of knowledge that there is. And I just think that art like yours work like yours. It does it it chips away at that reality and it makes space for us to finally start to, like, realize where we’re from, be proud of it and draw those lines instead of it feeling like some far, far off place where we’re revisiting our history and we’re tracking our roots. And I just think that your career has actually done a lot to get people interested in that and to put that on people’s radar. So I continue to be such a fan of yours, rooting for you, everybody listening to this podcast, you have got to cop this book. It will make you laugh or make you feel good and it’ll give you more of Yvonne. So check it out. 00:46:29][64.2]
Yvonne Orji: [00:46:29] Yes, check it out. It’s funny because I love the people who are like I got the audio books, I can hear your voice. And then they were like, but then I had to get the the hardcover because I had needed the highlighted take notes because it was too it was too many things to try to remember it. I was like, I’m blessed y’all
Cortney Wills: [00:46:52] I think a workbook might be next
I love it my dear. Thank you so much. I hope I get to talk to you again soon. And we just obviously cannot wait for all the fabulous things coming from you, including Insecure and this and this Vacation Friends. That sounds cool too
Both of these women are just a few of the names I hope to see in a few weeks when the Emmys announces the nominees for this year’s award show, so many Black actors, actresses, creators have presented work that is worthy of getting recognized on TV’s biggest night. And we’ll be talking to several people that I think should be on the short list over the coming weeks.
Thank you for listening to Acting Up, if you liked what you heard, please give us a five star review and subscribe to the show. Wherever you listen to your podcasts, please email all questions, suggestions and compliments to podcasts at theGrio.com. Follow us on Instagram and Acting Up dot pod. Acting Up is brought to you by the Grio, an executive produced by Courtney Wills and produced by Cameron Blackwell. [00:46:52][0.0]
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