Since becoming a fan favorite on Living Single more than 30 years ago, Erika Alexander has remained a constant fixture in Hollywood. In recent years, she’s shifted her focus to the fight for equality, specifically, the push for reparations. She joins Dear Culture to discuss her current TV and film projects and her dedication to positively impacting culture.
READ FULL TRANSCRIPT:
Panama Jackson [00:00:00] You are now listening to theGrio’s Black Podcast Network. Black Culture Amplified.
Panama Jackson [00:00:06] What’s going on, everybody? And welcome to Dear Culture, the podcast for, by and about the culture, here on theGrio Black Podcast Network. I’m your host, Panama Jackson. And we are joined today by a special guest. And I say that every time. I really do say special guest every single time. But you know what? All of our guests are special. And the reason I’m saying it again this time is because our guest today is an actress. She’s a writer, she’s a director, she’s a producer, she’s an activist. She’s probably a DJ. She’s probably out here spittin bars because she’s been on Wu-Tang shows. She does it all. And, you know, she was out here hanging with with the VP and the President at a Juneteenth ceremony here in Washington, DC. My guest today is none other than Erika Alexander. How are you doing today?
Erika Alexnder [00:00:49] Yay. Thank you. Thank you. I’m good, Panama. Thank you for the invitation to be here. And yes, I was at the Juneteenth celebration on the front lawn of the White House because it’s the first one that’s ever been done. And I was invited and I was glad to hang out and everyone had their phones out. It Was a fantastic day and there’ll be many more. But that was the first one that’s ever been done in history. So there you go. At the White House.
Panama Jackson [00:01:14] Yeah, people definitely had their phones out because that’s how I knew you were there. I live in D.C. Every friend of mine was popping pictures and putting things in Instagram stories. I’m like, Oh, she’s here in D.C., She’s out here hanging out at a wonderful, what looked to be a wonderful, Juneteenth celebration with a wonderful lineup. So kudos to you. I hope you had a really good time.
Erika Alexnder [00:01:33] It was we had church out on the on the front lobby. There was some gospel choir that showed up and everybody showed up and I’m a preacher’s daughter and they probably got all sorts of crazy, you know, situations for me. But we all had a great time. Really.
Panama Jackson [00:01:51] When I knew I was gonna have an opportunity to speak with you, the first word that came to mind was legacy. And that’s for a couple of reasons. One is because of the work that you’ve done as an actress, and the other is because of the work that you’ve done behind the camera. And we’re going to talk about both those different facets of it, because I think you’re somebody whose legacy is quite, quite cemented but is also constantly emotion. It now everybody knows you. Everybody that I know anyway knows you of course, because of one of the most iconic roles in, I was about to say Black television and I’m just going to say television’s one of the most iconic roles in television of Maxine Shaw, part of the ensemble cast on the show Living Single, which is one of my favorite shows. I watched it in syndication. I don’t know what streaming service are, but I go back and watch the episodes because it’s so it was just good TV. Now, when you were making Living Single, did you see it being the kind of show that still mattered in 2023? That people were going to be referencing on trivia questions and every Black game that exists where people still talking about ride the maverick. I have a T-shirt that says that I did not wear it today and I’m very sad about that. But, you know, did you know what y’all were making? Did you see it?
Erika Alexnder [00:03:08] I like to say we did because we had been a part of a real powerful power play on television, starting with The Cosby Show and then on with Different World. And of course, in film, you had Robert Townsend and Spike Lee and many players who were doing work that was not only culturally relevant, but also American, you know, television and film. And creating a new way to to look at who could be in that space and occupied. I’m glad that you actually changed your wording. And you said Black television and then you said no, you said American television. Because the truth is, there’s the only one designation we get. We don’t ever say Asian TV for show with an all Asian cast, and only we say a Black show. But there’s no such thing. There’s shows with Black casts. And that actual designation was one of the things that we were fighting against when we were starting to do our show, because no one ever said that The Cosby Show was a Black show. Ever. They always said that it was must see TV. In fact, he created it with that show and the success of it. So we thought coming in as kids who were in their twenties, early twenties in the nineties, and that’s from Wu-Tang on, a lot of us are in that same age range that we could make a difference in, that we could create the new new and it would have impact. And so, you know, I’m just humble, bragging, saying, No, we did not know eventually what it would become because no one knows. But the truth is, we set out to have a significant play in relevance in the future of the culture, in American culture on TV.
Panama Jackson [00:04:56] You know, it’s interesting because the idea of like Black TV versus TV in general, like part of me is like it’s just television, right? Like. But it’s funny because and I’d say I always say Black because I mean, one this is a Black podcast, so to speak, in terms of the goals of it, right? The goals are highlighting it, amplifying Black culture, you know, full stop. But it’s funny because in my own household, like things that centered and represented, Blackness was like the mainstream, right? Like, I never called the other shows white TV, but that’s effectively what they were to me, right? Because in my house, if it had Black people in it, that’s what we’re watching, right? Like, if it had Black people on the radio, except for, you know, like Bobby Caldwell and, you know, Michael McDonald and them. Just the standard issue, you know, white folks that show up Black households just because, you know, they sound like Black people.
Erika Alexnder [00:05:48] Hall and Oates.
Panama Jackson [00:05:49] Yeah, listen, definitely Hall. That was my Saturday and Sunday morning cleaning music was Hall and Oates in my household. It’s funny because this conversation about Black TV versus like, TV, we got to have the Friends convo. We got to do it. Because whenever I see a conversation about Friends and Living Single, you’re always a part of that conversation. One, how did you end up as the vocal part of that conversation and how important is it that we continue to have this conversation to discuss like not only representation but being properly acknowledged for what you brought to the table and how that influenced TV that we often get race from?
Erika Alexnder [00:06:30] Yeah. You know, I’m a mouthy person. I’m always talking about something. I’m also an activist and advocate for different types of organizations, for girls and women. And for many of the things that I’ve done in this world. One of the first things they want to talk about is Living Single. And so I would honestly, as honestly as I could answer, excuse me, I would talk about anything and everything. And there seemed to be a thing that was bubbling up because people in new generations, whether it’s millennials like yourself and or, you know, alphas, we’re seeing it in syndication and having and putting sort of the threads together of what came first, who came first and those types of things. And it really matters inside of culture and communities that are marginalized that we get our props and our do. Whether it’s for rock and roll, jazz, blues, hip hop, you know, all these things, R&B, we’re often discounted. And they saw the connection that we were both produced by the same production company. But Friends being in the so-called mainstream, and I use that very loosely because I don’t.
Panama Jackson [00:07:40] Right.
Erika Alexnder [00:07:41] Believe in that because, as you say, Black culture is mainstream culture, but it’s marginalized by media and advertising and branding that marginalizes it. They saw that it was they thought it was being ripped off. And I had a little Twitter, you know, sort of back and forth with David Schwimmer, who was just doing a nice interview. He didn’t know he was stepping into it. And he said maybe, perhaps one day in this world that there would be a Black Friends and or an Asian Friends. And I twittered back that he didn’t know it, but he was actually the white Living Single. And then Black Twitter took it from there. Medium magazine called me and said, Would you do an article on this? And I thought it was important, Panama, that you can’t have a conversation about something that’s important in 140 characters. So I did that article and the next day, you know, I became the unofficial spokesperson for that. I never meant to be.
Panama Jackson [00:08:39] But I mean, that work is important, so it’s much appreciated. Like every time, you know, I don’t think we we do enough to really dig deep into that stuff like we can’t like the conversation always happens, but then it dies off and then it comes back, you know, as like shows like Living Single, they’re not going anywhere. Like, we still watch, like people like me who grew up watching these shows. Like, you know, I was a teenager when Living Single came out. But, you know, it’s still a part of my life. You know, like I know all the characters, like the back of my hand, right? Like, you know, I wanted to be like Khadijah. I wanted to run Flavor, like I wanted to run a magazine, Like I wanted to do that. You know, we all have friends like, like, like Overton. And I don’t know, I have a friend like Sinclair necessarily, but, you know, I wish I did because it seemed like a lot of fun, right? So, you know, I think those conversations are important. So the work that you’re doing, again is why I use the word legacy.
Panama Jackson [00:09:30] And I want to keep that going because I read an article or an interview that you did where you talked about how after Living Single ended, I think you might have expected more opportunities to present themselves. This must have been like very early after the show wrapped, or maybe it was just in retrospective. But, you know, you have been a part of some of the most iconic television that I can think of, especially as it relates to Black people in representation. So this is going to be off the top of my head. I know you were in Insecure. Your in Run the World which is on now. I’m you know I laughed at you role in Run the World. Insecure. I said Insecure. Queen Sugar which is one of my absolute favorite television shows of all time. Just because it’s the story we’ve never seen before in any capacity. And, you know, I just love it. But and you were in the Wu-Tang. The Wu-Tang, it’s Wu-Tang: An American Saga, I think is the official name of that show.
Erika Alexnder [00:10:26] Yes.
Panama Jackson [00:10:26] Among others, like you’re on all of these shows that are very essential, especially to our community, in the way that we see ourselves and representation. So, you know, I guess looking back now and and I understand that I’m looking at it from I see you on TV or I see you there. And that to me, who was not in the TV world is like, Oh, wow, you’re there, you made it. And then you, you know, you’ve been ER. You did a whole medical, the whole medical show run like, which is, is like the, you know, like I turn on my TV and, and boom, there you are. Do you still feel that way about like the career that you had looking back? Has that changed or is it more because you’re in it in like the roles have either manifested themselves in ways that you feel are like match your career and talent and what you should have gotten?
Erika Alexnder [00:11:17] Well, you know, I guess there could be a conversation about should’ve, could’ve, would’ve. But I do know this that a person, and again it’s a humblebrag, who has as much range as I do and in some of the most successful shows in history of television and on stage and also film, Get Out and certain things, you believe that you have earned the right to be in consideration for roles, for lead roles, and that you can hold a show. And there are a lot of people who thought I could. The problem is, is there’s systemic racism and white supremacy is real. And so it wants to build with who it wants to build with. And so I’m not a like many people who have tried and again, come from marginalized communities who are undermined and undervalued. And so I represent a more vocal maybe person to saying that, yes, I was disappointed with the opportunities that were offered that I was offered thereafter, and I was gratified in many ways that I use that time to grow and build my skillset, whether it was writing, directing, producing and those things like that, doing comic books, all those other things. I wouldn’t have had the time to do it if I hadn’t. If I had been working on and on and on. And I have lasted more than most. Even the biggest stars who have whiter skin haven’t last as long as I. Next year it’ll be 40 years that I’ve been in business and I feel like I’m mentally healthy, I’m resilient, I’ve been building all along. I’ve been trying to create opportunities for young people, for older people, for people who are disabled, people who are, you know, differently gendered that come from different geographic areas. I’ve been trying to build, not for myself, but for the industry itself. So I’ll look at it this way that, yes, it was disappointing, it was tough. And yet, you know, that’s when you can build sometimes the biggest opportunity for yourself and ultimately for the entertainment industry, which I always say the soft power of America is entertainment and it’s the most powerful tool that we have for change. So let’s see if that happens.
Panama Jackson [00:13:35] All right. So we’re going to take a real quick break here. And we come back, we’re going to talk a bit about the other side of this legacy conversation, which you just led right into, where you’re creating opportunities for for viewing things in a different way. So stay tuned right here on Dear Culture with Erika Alexander.
Being Black: The ’80s Podcasts [00:13:53] The eighties gave us unforgettable songs from Bob Marley, De La Soul and Public Enemy. Being Black: The ’80s is a podcast docu-series hosted by me, Touré, looking at the most important issues of the eighties through the songs of the decade. A decade when crack kingpins controlled the streets but lost their humanity. You couldn’t be like no soft, smiling, happy-go-lucky drug dealer. You had to suppress that. It was a time when disco was part of gay liberation. It provided the information to counter narratives that were given to gay people by the straight world. This is the funkiest history class you’ll ever take. Join me, Touré, for Being Black: The ’80s on theGrio Black Podcast Network, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
Panama Jackson [00:14:55] All right. We’re back here on Dear Culture, and I’m joined by Erika Alexander. And we’re talking about legacy, for me, anyway. That’s the framing of this conversation. And one of the reasons why I wanted to talk about that is because you’ve done amazing work in front of the camera where you and all these iconic roles. Like you mentioned, Get Out, you’ve done film, TV, you’ve done. Whenever I see you on screen, it’s always a joy. Right? I’m always like, Oh, here we go. Like, I know I’m watching some quality. That’s how I genuinely feel.
Erika Alexnder [00:15:26] Hey.
Panama Jackson [00:15:27] You’ve also done some amazing work behind the camera and in particular I want to talk about. So you did the John Lewis Good Trouble documentary, which I really enjoyed. I genuinely enjoyed that. So kudos to you, one of the producers on that. But you did this, The Big Payback, this reparations doc, which we got to talk about.
The Big Payback [00:15:46] You can not pay my grandfather back. He’s dead. Give us what we’re due. I don’t think is going to go too far or anywhere. I’m still not prepared to join an insurrection. I just want you to understand who we are.
Panama Jackson [00:16:00] For one, what brought you to the to the to the reparations convo in such a way that made you want to create a documentary about the conversation and about what was happening in Evanston, Illinois. Like what? What brought you there? How did you get there?
Erika Alexnder [00:16:16] Well, turns out I got skin in the game.
Panama Jackson [00:16:20] You don’t say.
Erika Alexnder [00:16:21] You don’t say. And I tell you, at some point in your life, you start to look at the reasons why there are certain obstacles or you start to learn with 1619 project or the Ta-Nehisi Coates article. And just even your parents and your grandparents or even the school and education that you have, why things are the way they are. And it keeps pointing back to thinking that, you know, Ta-Nehisi said this recently, I just ran into him at a summit. He said, you know, you just some things you can’t vote out there at the core, you know, built Rome. And why is that? And you start to think about reparations, reparations. Why? Because we’re talking about the first reconstruction having failed just after slavery and then second Reconstruction, stopping after the assassination of Martin Luther King. And that Reverend Barber of the Poor People’s Campaign says this is the third reconstruction and that we’re in the midst of being the architects. All of us, if we know, if we if we aware that we are in the third reconstruction and what could we do to bring our best selves to it, to rebuild America the way it was meant to be, you know, from sea to shining sea. And I thought, I’m going a creator. My tools are, you know, probably the most powerful tools in the world because I say that, you know, that the battleground is really the circumference of our head, about 22 inches around. And the imagination and what we can imagine we can usually create, but we can’t create it if the the foundations we’re building on are corrupt. And so I wanted to tell that tale. And it turns out we started to make a reparations documentary. And then I went on the Breakfast Club and Charlemagne was like, Yo queen, you want to do a podcast about about reparations. And I said, okay. So we did a companion podcast, and my co-director, Whitney Dow, who’s a white man, while we were doing this, did the podcast 12 episodes. And then all the while I was creating this documentary and the why we were doing it, we got a call from one of the people who supported the documentary early on, Katie Barksdale, and she said, You got to get down to Evanston. Someone’s passed the first tax funded reparations bill for African-Americans in history. And it was Robin Rue Simmons, alderwoman, Robin Rue Simmons. So we decided to switch lanes and do a verité film about her journey and link it to H.R. 40, which is the bill to study reparations and make recommendations with Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee. And so that’s what it became. That’s why I did it, because I was curious about what things were in there. And then suddenly we were able to follow American history being made in real life.
The Big Payback [00:19:12] We in Evanston are leading the way to heal a nation. We don’t want a piece of freedom. We want the whole package. And that’s reparations.
Panama Jackson [00:19:21] It’s such a compelling doc, mostly because watching it in like current time, I know it starts in like 2019, but you have to go through COVID. You know, one of the principals in there passes away from COVID. It was really interesting to see the different perspectives, like there’s a white woman from South Africa who was very compelled to make reparations, which is I mean, you know, she’s not even American. She you know, she clearly moved over here at some point. She still has our accent, but she’s even questioning like, you know, I feel like we have to do something, but am I willing to give up money for this? You have, you know, the white guy who was like, man, to hell with reparations? I don’t buy this. But you also have the Black conservative male, you know, who unfortunately, who passed away during the creation of this thing, who is talking about like I don’t believe in this. We we you know, we kind of pull ourselves up from our bootstraps type of, you know, type of thing. And it was so interesting just watching, like individual stories that coalesce with like the larger conversation that happens nationally. It’s clearly a national conversation that happens in the halls of Congress and all that. But there was such a funny quote to me in this not funny, but it looks funny in retrospect, where somebody on I think it was on the radio, on a phone call calling into some show was like, you know, we go get Juneteenth before we get reparations. And boom, we get Juneteenth well before. The reparations conversation sometimes feels like a nonstarter. So, like, let me ask you, since we did get Juneteenth a move in the right direction, why is this the time to really kick this conversation into high gear? I mean, it’s always the right time, but is this like the time in history to really make this happen in a space where there’s so much opposition now. Like after George Floyd passes away, everybody was like Black, all Black, everything. Now everybody’s like, Man, to hell with Blackness. I want no Black books. I don’t want no Black nothing like it. Y’all get out of Florida, like everything that can be done and seems like it’s gone the complete opposite direction. Like, where do you see the reparations conversation now? And is this the right time to, like, push this? Like, really try to get H.R. 40 across the finish line?
Erika Alexnder [00:21:27] It’s not only the right time, it’s been passed the right time. They tried to so-called 40 acres in a move to give us reparations because they knew that Black people newly freed with no citizenship and or no homes, nothing that they owned really, outside of whether you were freedmen or not, that they would need something to to give them. And I say give them something that I say we’ve earned. But, you know, for the purposes of this conversation and so they, they, they designated a specific part of the codes and said that that should happen. And then Lincoln was assassinated and they got that Confederate vice president in there basically sympathizer and it was over. And then we suffered the brutality of lynchings and torture and terrorism up until the fifties. They said, enough is enough. We need civil rights. We need to be able to vote. You’ll never be able to vote these people out of here. They’re torturing us. They’re killing us. They’re raping us. They’re doing all the same things they did to slavery. And and we don’t have any protections. And then that sparked the civil rights era. And then after Martin Luther King was assassinated, we went to a whole other thing that was with the mass incarceration and the drugs and all the horrible housing that had never we’d never had proper housing and education and all these things not properly vetted or had properly funded. The people who fought wars, came home and didn’t have the GI Bill was just so much systemic in its true evil just built into the system.
Erika Alexnder [00:23:11] And so I think that not only was it past time, Reverend Barber talks about a moral revival, and I’ve mentioned him a lot because he’s a mentor. I’m not necessarily religous, I’m a very spiritual person. He says that America must cannot be unless it right the wrongs that it knows are outstanding, and that is for its own sake. If America is an idea the ideas corrupted its core, then we’re all talking nonsense and everybody can keep piling on. But you piling on it too. They say a burning house or, you know, or it was steaming pile, you know. So we either need to get with it for our sakes. And I mean, reparations they always put it in positioning of saving Black people, it’s saving white people. White people need to atone for the sins of the past, not because they done them or they participated directly. Indirectly, their whole lives are built on something that is a lie and that continues to feed upon the lie, whether it’s the housing situation, the financial situation, the way we treat the world. The European colonization situation is now being vetted by everybody, whether it’s the Commonwealth or in Africa. They’re saying, no, no, no, you can’t come over here, the Commonwealth, to say no, no, no to the Queen. All these things are happening. So I’m saying at this, this is maybe could be the sunset of humanity. What are we going to do? How are we going to say that we tried to build a version that had equal rights for everybody? Well, the only thing you can do is say, we’re now going to go back and we’re going to rebalance the scales knowing that it was built against you. Now we’re going to address it. So my child, white, Black or otherwise can lift their head and say, my grandparents, my parents, they did the right thing. So now I can walk into the future with a possibility of the same thing.
Panama Jackson [00:25:00] You know, one of the most interesting things about that duck to me was that and this is a conversation I think we always have in a community when it comes to reparations is like, what does that look like? Like how do you actually pay that debt and right that wrong? Like we always talk about reparations in the form of a check. And I think that’s how most people think of it. But I also very much understood the alderwoman who’s trying to figure out like like how do we actually create a space that gets to wealth building? Like is a check going to do that? And this is I mean, this is a conversation we’ve all had. And even Chappelle’s spoofed it on the show years ago. Like everybody, you know, I when I was in grad school, I actually have a master’s in public policy and my focus was on social policy. In one of my classes, I wrote a series of papers about reparations, largely based on H.R. 40 and the idea that the government is responsible for this because the government allowed it. So we need to be approaching this from the government angle, as you know, is obviously how most people, I think, think of it now and that the government should be atoning for the wrongs. But what does that even look like. And one of the biggest arguments I got in with my professor was how do you actually do that. Now, he was a Black guy who did not like the idea of reparations. He hated it. So he murdered my paper. You know, I was all about the education reforms and housing reforms and all of that type of stuff. But that’s contentious. Even amongst arguing with my boys about this stuff. Like now. I mean, I need a check. Nah, we need we need a central bank for Black people that does these things that we can all, you know, all these kind of things, like, you know, what does atoning even look like and what is it going to take to get that over the hump in your mind?
Erika Alexnder [00:26:37] I think H.R. 40 is on the right pace. They’re looking to do a study and then make recommendations. They’re looking to use the power, congressional power to open up the books, whether it’s financial, education, insurance, you know, whatever, and make the case for reparations. And that will also inform the how we can have opinions about it. What America has paid debts all over the place all the time. It’s paying the debts for Ukraine right now. It’s giving them. They don’t say, how can we fight this war? They go and they get it done. And they, you know, write a big old check and then they give it to Ukraine. But they also find out from the Defense Department how to do it. There could be a Department of Reparations. They really could be just to take this on. And I think that America takes on big questions, but to keep pushing this down the road and then it’s acting like, oh, it’s so big we can’t deal with it, and how could we pay it? There truly is no amount, dollar amount they could ever give for the disaster and evil and destruction and inhabit that was put upon our people and certainly the continent of Africa. But we can also discuss that we are deserved. They’re deserving of it. We can. I’m glad that you threw your hat in it as a student. You were you were brave and and he murdered your paper, but he didn’t murder the spirit. You know what I’m saying? You are Harriet’s child. You meant to go to the sticky waters of the swamp, come out, scratched up, and go back because we need to have this conversation. But also, although I really love Dave Chappelle and I’m a fan, the fact that they always show Black people spending it, wasting it away treats us like we are wards of the state.
Dave Chappelle Show [00:28:19] Well, today the first checks were sent out. That’s right, babe. I just bought this truck straight cash. Now I got enough cigarettes to last me and my family for the rest of our lives.
Erika Alexnder [00:28:28] And that is not only insulting. They didn’t ask the Japanese in after the internment how they spend the money that they gave them in the seventies and eighties. They they knew that they needed to right a wrong and they didn’t paint them as people that were foolish, that would go spend it on everything they didn’t need. But frankly, if you write me a check, you don’t have the right to tell me what to do with it. It’s none of your business what happens. I can do what I want because all these years and all those years, you didn’t give them the right to own themselves, their lives, their children, their anything. And there’s so many stories of how they were able to subsume and just, you know, continue to dominate all facets of their life in their thinking, in their health or whatever. Now, you don’t get to tell Black people that we also need to create storytelling around it. Narrative change because we can’t keep taking on the narratives that they’ve given us colored people’s time. We take that on and we laugh. But the truth is, there were white people who told us over and over again as we were cleaning their butts and taking care of their children, that we were lazy and shiftless. And this is after we built the country and made it strong. And then take that all like, you know, colored people. That’s bull. What the new narrative around that needs to be the darker skinned earlier in. That’s what I see that’s what we to start to keep digging and mining that and creating us not only the super brilliant people that we are that creating even whole new cultural standards and ways and you know, music and styles and everything and is the epitome of physicality but also of the minecraft again, the imagination, the way we think. And then we’ll start to tell a better story of who we are and they’ll start to see not only they don’t need to agree that we deserve it, the United States needs to pay it, and that’s what it is.
Panama Jackson [00:30:24] I feel like you just put me at the end of the line. But, you know, that hurts my heart a little bit. You know, I just I don’t appreciate that, I got to say. But, you know, what am I? I can’t argue. I can’t I can’t argue. That hurts my heart a little bit, but I’ll let that one cook. You know, interestingly. So I used to work I actually used to work on Capitol Hill. And it’s funny that the idea that they won’t even pass the bill, like mark it up on a committee, sign it that for something that just does a study. Because you know, what I do know from firsthand experience is typically when they don’t want to do something, they just create a study to go study it so they can actually get the study on the books and then just call it a day. Right. That’s usually the default. So the the the unwillingness to do something in the first place that’s so simple. A study is just you just throw money at a study, pay somebody to do it, you get it in, you know, 18 months, it gets kicked down the road for another two years. Then you do. The fact that that can’t even happen is is kind of astounding just to somebody who has witnessed that process over and over again whenever Congress couldn’t come to an agreement on something.
Erika Alexnder [00:31:31] But since you worked on it, since you worked on the Capitol, on Capitol Hill, why won’t they? If it’s the easiest thing to do, why won’t they do a study? That’s the question. A study is easy. For 30 years they push it down now, 30 to 33 years of pushing it down. Why? Why do you think?
Panama Jackson [00:31:52] Well to me, because sometimes when you do a study, you get answers, and if you get an answer, then you struggle with the inability. Like if you get answers that are reasonable. Answers that make sense. Answers that communities can get behind, then what do you do? Then you have no choice but to actively try to engage with the responses that you get. I’ve seen that happen with the program areas I used to work on. There was a huge change in law that was being that was being like petitioned for. And instead of doing that, they decided to do a study. They got a 350 page study back like 18 months later. And in this study it ended up doing the opposite of what they were hoping would happen. And then all of a sudden, all the lobbyists and all the special interest groups were like, Well, we want what’s in there. You guys got to come up with the money for that. And it was like, So I think the problem is sometimes you get answers and then once you get answers, people can see that these studies are public documents and they’re like, Yeah, we need this. Like, this is right here. So I’m guessing that’s probably why they’re so. And then there’s also racism and white supremacy and all that who are like, Why are we studying something that we don’t that whole nonsensical Well, nobody alive is a slave. Nobody alive now is a slave and nobody alive now was a slave owner. Why should these people benefit from more, have to pay the debts for people that are no longer alive, which is the stupidest argument ever.
Erika Alexnder [00:33:09] But you’re right about you get answers. You also get receipts. They will be going, showing really and putting in making naming names and making them famous. And should they fear that? No, because I say the truth will set us free. But you know what you give, you get to keep. And so since they haven’t given, they don’t get to keep it.
Panama Jackson [00:33:29] I agree. Well, you know, I applaud the I applaud the work there. Like, I really I mean, I enjoyed the documentary in the way that you can enjoy quality storytelling, you know, all that other stuff. But also just it was an interesting story to see a place where it has started, where that has it’s on the books, but also the difficulty. I mean, poor Rue Simmons, like she had to get out of that business. She had to get out of it. Right. It was just too much, too stressful. She was like, listen, I love my people, but I hate you all sometimes. Like I can’t deal with this stuff because nobody’s going to be happy no matter what happens. And I think, you know, that’s one of those unfortunate side effects that we have to get the work done, but also understand that everybody won’t be made whole in the idea of being made whole or be happy with an outcome that potentially does benefit the larger community. Like there’s a lot of it’s just difficult. Like I truly sympathize and empathize with anybody doing this fight actively because it’s not an easy hill to get over, nor does it look, it’s not clean, you know, it’s not a clean it doesn’t look clean for anybody being a part of it. I applaud that work. I genuinely applaud everybody fighting that fight on the front lines. Incuding yourself.
Erika Alexnder [00:34:42] Because it matters. And how we speak about it matters in the way we were giving, you know, depth even here to talk about it is phenomenal. So I appreciate it. Thank you.
Panama Jackson [00:34:52] Yeah. We’re going to take another break. We’re going to come back. We’re going to talk about a project you have coming up that I think is going to come out really soon. And we’re going to get to my favorite segments here on Dear Culture. Talk about some Blackfessions and Blackmendations. So stay tuned right here on your culture.
Star Stories Podcast [00:35:11] I’m Touré. Join us for crazy true stories about stars who I really hung out with like Snoop, Jay-Z, Prince, Kanye, and the time I got kidnaped by Suge Night. Don’t miss my animated series Star Stories with Touré from theGrio Black Podcast Network.
Panama Jackson [00:35:38] All right. We’re back here on Dear Culture with Erika Alexander. We’ve been talking about reparations and roles in Hollywood and white supremacy and all manner of things. But I want to talk about some of the art that you’re currently creating. You’re in a film that’s coming out on Hulu, Wildflower, which is an interesting film. I actually watch it. I saw the movie and it was so interesting. It was like, this is a I’ve never seen anything like this before. It’s kind of like a family film with some teen drama type stuff and all kind of stuff involved in it like. So tell me about Wildflower and your role specifically in this film and what it was like making this movie that’s touching on like speaking to marginalized communities that we just don’t see in my in my estimation, often.
Erika Alexnder [00:36:19] Sure. Wildflowers about a, is based on a true story. The director, Matt Smukler, has a niece that has raised by his wife’s sister who is mentally challenged, and she married a man who is I think they use the word neurodivergent and they are not struggling raising her. But the child is more and more in the normal range. And she basically has been raising herself, but also raising them because they have they’re not as mature and it’s time for her to go to college and it’s play brilliantly by Kiernan Shipka. And she doesn’t know how to leave because they’re codependent and she’s wondering and having the pressures of being a teenager and growing up in that space, but also wanting to rebel and find her way.
Wildflower [00:37:14] With your grades and extracurriculars, you have a shot of getting into any college. I can’t. You can. No, I mean, I can’t leave.
Erika Alexnder [00:37:23] So the name Wildflower sort of refers to, you know, a flower that that is nurtured by whatever rain comes in and whatever sun and is left to grow on its own. But. I think what it is, it draws attention to how different families work. We we see a lot of so-called normal families on television because that’s what they say people want to see. And I don’t think that we give enough conversation to how many people have these types of, you know, relatives and family members and friends in their community and in their direct family. So this is a way to to see that story. And I love that Jean Smart and some really brilliant actors. Dash Mihok I worked with before, Kiernan Shipka I worked with before Swimming with the Sharks, although she was seducing me. Now I’m her social worker on there. Now, you know how weird that is to be being kissed by this young woman on one thing and then suddenly being a social worker, she’s a teenager. I said, You know what? I’m just going to have to close my brain down and just say that’s what’s acting is about. But this was a great film and I was glad to be asked to be a part of it.
Panama Jackson [00:38:40] Yeah. And, you know, it’s you know, one of the questions I have for you about that, when I watched it was, you know, using a film is a medium that often shows parts of life that we’re not familiar with or that people, you know, it introduces you to a world you may be unfamiliar with, especially when it has like real life elements, not fantasy stuff, but like you’re seeing families that struggle with certain things are trying to make, you know, basically trying to make it work. What do you hope people get out of seeing a film like Wildflower?
Erika Alexnder [00:39:10] I hope they gain an understanding of a larger context about what it is to be human and the different types of way that we show up in the world and ways to not only have the conversation, but actually protect their freedom to have a family. You know, what does support look like? Sometimes you want to protect people from themselves, but you don’t know that you are stopping them from their pursuit of happiness. And we need to have more blueprints and templates to show people if they ever come across that or if they have that right now that their story matters and that they should be able to tell their story, write their books, make their movies, you know, archive this because it’s important over and over and over again to show that the human condition and experience is certainly not a monolith. And it’s much more valuable when you see it in all its glory, present itself in a way that may, you know, educate you.
Panama Jackson [00:40:07] Yeah, I mean, that’s one of the things since I’ve been a writer and even podcasting and things like that, one of the things that I’ve always been a big fan of is everybody having an opportunity to tell their story in the way that they want to. Like. For so long, people have been telling the stories of everybody else. And one of my favorite quotes is, we call these things what? Old African proverb. Who knows where these things come from. But, you know, until the lion learns to write, the hunter tells the story or, you know, some variation on that. And I’ve always felt like it’s important as writers and creators to, like, enable as many people to have an option to tell a story as possible, because all these stories are important. And the more that we’ve learned about different types of people, I think ultimately makes the world a better. I know that’s kind of like cliché and idealistic, but it is. It’s also true. Right. Like, empathy and understanding is only you can only achieve it if you see other people and you meet people that are unlike you. So I can really appreciate that type of storytelling. So, you know, kudos to the whole cast and all of you for being a part of this film and the storytelling that really that really highlights something.
Erika Alexnder [00:41:13] Here’s another thing. It’s always fun until the rabbit gets the gun. You know, the Woman King come out. You know, the hunted becomes the hunter, the haunted becomes haunts other people. And I would be a real switcheroo, Annie, if you been in a world that a lot of the not lot most of everything we see is done through a filter of white male dominance and supremacy and patriarchy. And then we start to see that there’s a new so-called minority majority that is ascendant and that the world culture and global culture is starting to step in and have a say and be on those same channels and compete. Then what happens to the sense of themselves or the sense of us that we’ve been nurtured and sort of, you know, in this world we’re getting a reeducation and and and there also needs to be an embracing of it because there’s great ways to collaborate inside of that. You know what I mean? And not to be afraid and show people how do we collaborate. But I do think you’re right that, you know, it is different when the the the so-called native Indians are now telling the story, they will start to, you know, tell a different story than the one that we’ve seen thus far.
Panama Jackson [00:42:31] Absolutely. My goodness. All right. So. We’ve come to the conclusion of the show, my favorite segments, the segments where we have a little fun with our guests. And the first segment that we do is called a Blackfession, which is a confession about your Blackness, something Black people will be surprised to know about you because, well, you’re Black. Do you have a Blackfession that you can share with the people about you, Erika Alexander?
Erika Alexnder [00:42:59] Yes. I think that my Blackfession is that most people would not know that I was born and raised in northern Arizona, in the mountains. And it’s hard to picture people being in Arizona at all. That used to picture them, if anywhere. Phenix But not in the mountains, not in Winslow or Flagstaff, in Bigfoot country. And I was born in Winslow. And then very shortly after, my parents, who were both orphans and they had six kids, I’m fourth in their.
Panama Jackson [00:43:33] Oh, wow.
Erika Alexnder [00:43:34] Moved to Flagstaff. So I spent the first 11 years of my life in a hotel called Starlight off of Route 66. My father was a Church of God and Christ preacher, and my mother was a teacher. And we lived there and did that where my father was basically tipped waged worker because that’s how preachers were paid. Half the plate. And as an evangelist with not a home church, it was difficult for him. The German Lutherans discovered him and thought that he might make a good youth pastor, and so they sent him to Theological Seminary in Philly. And that’s how I got to Philly. And in that summer I get discovered. And suddenly I’m so it didn’t just get discovered in that basement theater called Freedom Theater, where a movie came to town looking for Black and Latino girls to audition for a small part. But also I discovered that I was young, gifted and Black. And that was interesting. Up until that point, I had lived in a narrative of basically Navajo Hopi, Mexican natives and also German Lutherans and a few Blacks.
Panama Jackson [00:44:39] Well, that is just fascinating. Let me ask you this, too. This is not a Blackfession so much, but what’s something about being on Living Single that fans would be surprised to know about that show?
Erika Alexnder [00:44:52] I don’t know. I thought there was so much things that were regular about the show that I think they’d be surprised to know that we had to advocate for ourselves to get air conditioning. We’re up there in the valley sweating to death, and we had to fight to get air conditioning. Fight to get proper, you know, craft services. It may mean something to no one to say, Oh, well, what do you mean? Well, we work all day on a set and it’s a warehouse. We work in warehouses and we spend our time in trailers. Trailers that people hitch and travel, you know, maybe from state to state. And we flush the toilet with our foot. Everyone thinks that show biz is glamorous and it is not. It is hard work. Often it is the work where you feel like you’re being housed like an animal. I’m not even kidding you. Like, you know, you know? And then suddenly of these Showtime people show up to put you in pretty faces and clothes and then say, action. And then you go back down, you dress down, and you come in and rehearse their lines over and over again and over and over again. 26 times. We work. You learn a play a week. That’s what people should get that every four days you learn a play a week and you perform it in front of a live audience that it’s taped. So you’re doing a taped show with, you know, the camera and also a live show, two of them. And if they knew how grueling that is, they would get more respect for what it takes to be under that intense kind of stress. But they should also know that that’s why we needed a snack every now and then and air conditioning, because it was a grueling session.
Panama Jackson [00:46:29] Fair enough. Wow. Perspective. Right. Perspective.
Erika Alexnder [00:46:34] Sure. I got on of new set and people were complaining about ten episodes and I said you wouldn’t last a day in my world. Not a day.
Panama Jackson [00:46:43] All right. So one of the last things we do is we ask our guest for a Blackmendation, which is a recommendation about something by, for and about Black. It’s Black culture. Something that you think other Black people should be up on? Do you have a Blackmendation?
Erika Alexnder [00:46:57] Gosh, I should be ready for this. I think they should know that really some of the best stuff happening now is in graphic novel space and comic book space. And my Blackmendation is to go to your next Comic-Con and go to Artist Alley and go find the new Shakespeares and the new Picasso and all that. The current day conversation around what’s next is happening in those spaces, so you should go meet those people because often they’re there and you can meet your heroes right now in real time and start to discover who they are, but also learn what they’re doing. They’re doing fantastic work there. You’ll find me sometimes. Concrete Park and the graphic novels I have, but the thing that I found there was a group of artists that don’t do it for the money. They do it because they are compelled to do it because they have to do it and they tell stories they want to tell, whether it’s science fiction stories or ghost stories or any of that. And I’m really glad they’re there to show us the way.
Panama Jackson [00:47:58] Sounds good. I will. I like that as a record. We’ve never heard that before. We never heard that Black medicine before. But I actually agree with you. I check out graphic novels and things like that. I have a book club I do with a Black bookstore. So they always have all of these unique graphic novels and stories. And the owner is always telling me to check these things out. Sometimes I do, sometimes I don’t. I’m a more of a regular traditional reader. But, you know, I like that. That’s a good recommendation. What do you have coming up that everybody needs to know about? And you know what you got going? What do you got going on that we can make sure to be checking out for?
Erika Alexnder [00:48:32] Thank you for this. I think people should go and check out Color Farm Media. I’m co-founder of Color Farm Media with Ben Arnon, where I’ve been doing this for now seven years and good trouble. You mentioned in the Big Payback and Big Payback podcast finding Tamika we did with Kevin Hart and Charlamayne is executive producers and SPH Productions, but also it’s on Audible and it was Audible’s Best True Crime audio series and it also got a Dupont-columbia award, we’re very proud. And we did that with JT Green and Moulton Hart. So I’m very proud of the people that we collaborated with and also I’m going to have a few movies come out. So last year was a big deal for a TV series, and now the movies that I did are coming. So Wildflower. Please check that out on Hulu, and that’s fantastic. But also a movie called Earth Mama, it’s going to be out July 7th. It’s an A24 film. Savannah Leaf is the director, new film director feature debut at Tia Nomore, and Doechii. They’re fantastic in it. I’m in it. Should go see it for that reason.
Erika Alexnder [00:49:40] In later on this year in November, we just got into the Toronto Film Festival. Cord Jefferson, who was one of the writers of Watchmen. He won the Emmy for Watchmen with Damon Lindelof. We did a film together, I’m in it with Jeffrey Wright as the lead. Jeff, I played his girlfriend, Jeffrey Wright, Tracee Ellis Ross, Sterling, K Brown, Issa Rae and Leslie Uggams. Fantastic cast. Look for it. It’s a comedy. I think that’s going to be fantastic. And thank you, everybody who supported Run the World, which is out right now. And to Corbin and Grecia and Amber, who they’re so fantastic, and our writers and crew and Yvette Lee Bowser, who I did Living Single with, is one of the co-creators of that. And I just want to say that anybody that keeps supporting me on Living Single and again in the work that I’ve done with HBCUs. Going around doing the debate tour in North Carolina, whether it’s Howard doing that wtih finding Tamika. The White House has supported us, all the foundations that have come and helped lift and supported us because it is not easy raising money for each one of these projects. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Every time you share or tell somebody about what we’re doing, what I’m doing, it really matters. And I’ve been trying to organically lift and build myself in a way that I think will make you proud and I don’t take your support for granted. So thank you.
Panama Jackson [00:51:05] Yeah. To make us proud is an understatement. I think everybody who’s up on your career could not be happier. We’re excited. Like you said, a lot of people come and go, but you’re still here. I love when I see you on the screen in any capacity. Just, you know, listen, Maxine Shaw, iconic character, but you have a ton of iconic characters and things and things that you’ve done. So thank you so much for everything and everything you’ve done for the community, both in front of and behind the camera, because you just doing a lot. You got a lot of.
Erika Alexnder [00:51:37] I’m standing. I’m still strong. Yeah. Thank you.
Panama Jackson [00:51:40] Thank you for being here.
Erika Alexnder [00:51:42] Thank you. Thank you, Panama. Keep. Keep it up. theGrio is is a powerful, powerful place. And so necessary. Never stop. Thank you.
Panama Jackson [00:51:52] We appreciate that. We will continue to do that. So thank you, everybody for checking us out. Dear Culture is an original podcast of theGrio Black Podcast Network. I’m your host, Panama Jackson. It is produced by Sasha Armstrong, edited by Geoff Trudeau, and Regina Griffin is our director of podcasts. Have a Black one.
Being Black: The ’80s Podcasts [00:52:23] The eighties gave us unforgettable songs from Bob Marley, De La Soul and Public Enemy. Being Black: The ’80s is a podcast docu-series hosted by me, Toure, looking at the most important issues of the eighties through the songs of the decade ahead. A decade when crack kingpins controlled the streets but lost their humanity. You couldn’t be like no soft, smiling, happy-go-lucky drug dealer. You had to suppress that. It was a time when disco was part of gay liberation. It provided the information to counter-narratives that were given to gay people by the straight world. This is the funkiest history class you’ll ever take. Join me, Touré, for Being Black: The ’80s on theGrio Black Podcast Network, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
