Rissi Palmer explains the highs, the lows, and the racist undertones in Country music
Episode 52Play
Panama Jackson has an enlightening conversation with country music artist Rissi Palmer about what’s needed to bridge the racial gap in country music. The pair also discuss the repeated racist incidents Palmer has been forced to endure and the concerted effort underway to erase Black musician’s contributions to the genre.
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Panama Jackson [00:00:00] You are now listening to theGrio’s Black Podcast Network. Black Culture Amplified.
Panama Jackson [00:00:08] What’s going on, everybody? Welcome to Dear Culture, the podcast for by and about the culture. I’m your host, Panama Jackson. And today we have what is likely to be an enlightening and informative conversation. So for you all, because if it’s probably gonna enlighten me. I know, is probably going to enlighhen some other folks because I am a fan of country music and but we got to have a conversation about what that even means. This is what I’ve learned lately as I’ve done my deep dives. So today our guest is a is a singer. A songwriter. An advocate for marginalized communities in the country music space. She’s a radio host for Color Me Country on Apple Music. She’s in the recent subject of an American Masters episode.
American Masters [00:00:56] In 2007 and became the first Black woman in 20 years to be on the Billboard country charts.
Panama Jackson [00:01:02] Please put your digital hands together for the one, the only Rissi Palmer. How are you doing?
Rissi Palmer [00:01:08] I’m good. I’m so excited to be here. Thank you for inviting me.
Panama Jackson [00:01:12] Aw, listen, I want to tell you how this happened, because I want you to understand how we got here, okay? Because like I started doing a deep dive. So here’s what happened. Francesca Royster writes the book Black Country Music.
Rissi Palmer [00:01:26] Yes.
Panama Jackson [00:01:26] And in this book, there’s this whole section about, like Afrofuturism, you know, the future of country music and Afrofuturism and all this stuff. And you’re mentioned in there, right? So I’m looking up, you know, I’m learning. And while I’m a country fan, to a degree, I have to explain that at some point, too. I see your name and I’m like, okay, well, I’m doing my dives and I see you have this this country radio show. And because I plan on talking to Francesca Royster, I see you have a conversation with her. So I listen to was like, Oh, yo, she gets it.
Rissi Palmer [00:01:55] What do you think it’s going to take to shift the culture?
Francesca Royster [00:02:00] And there are underground forces, like people creating edgy work that’s saying stuff that maybe you can’t say if you are interested in, you know, performing on the rhyme and at the Ryman Auditorium and that that this music also kind of has a listenership maybe growing and connecting people, maybe breaking the rules of the genre. And I think that that kind of those kinds of underground movements can push and change, change minds and create audiences so that audience members are hungry and demanding for more.
Panama Jackson [00:02:45] Then I listen to your music. I’m like, Wait a minute, this is amazing. Like, I love this. I love your voice. I love all this stuff. I watched the America Masters documentary because I’m thorough about my research. And I see you mentioned like Summerville, Georgia, which I have a connection to. I do like. So I went to high school in Huntsville, Alabama, or Madison, Alabama. I mean, I got Huntsville and but all my family’s from Atlanta. So when we would drive from Huntsville to Atlanta, we would go through the mountains, which takes us through Summerville, right on the way to 75 at a Dyersville, whatever, or something like that. And there’s like this ice cream shop that’s right on us, right outside of some of the like after you come down the mountain, you hit this ice cream shop. And I used to go eat. We would stop there all the time with this ice cream shop to get ice cream. So I’m seeing Summerville I’m like wait a minute. So she done been to places I’ve been like this is, you know, they’re little forks in the road and stuff over there. So I was like, you know, I got to get her on here because there’s all these connections and you speak so eloquently and talk about like taking up space and reclaiming time in your particular genre, in your lane. I was like, I got to get you one here. So, you know, I’m excited to have you here. Thank you for being here.
Rissi Palmer [00:03:55] Oh, my gosh. Okay. First of all, that little ice cream shop has saved many, many a trip going to my great-grandmother’s house when I was a kid. So I love I love that you know that. And thank you so much like that. That means a lot. That means a lot. So thank you, because I’ve been a longtime fan of what you do for a long time, because also we have another with Very Smart Brothas, you and Damon. I’m from Pittsburgh. I was born in Pittsburgh. I was born in Pittsburgh Pennsylvania. And so my girlfriend, actually one of my best friends growing up was a fan of y’all and then turned me on. So I’ve been following every iteration of what you’re doing. So this is I love this makes me that full circle.
Panama Jackson [00:04:34] Ain’t that.
Rissi Palmer [00:04:35] Full circle.
Panama Jackson [00:04:36] Ain’t it all right. That’s what I’m talking about right there. So I wanted you to come here because I. I want to have a conversation about, like I said, taking up space and reclaiming time, however you want to frame that in country music. But I got to start with the biggest, most ridiculous question possible, which is what exactly is country music nowadays? Listen, I when I grew up, my mother was a big country fan. So and I’m talking about like the Waylon Jennings and everybody love Willie Nelson, of course, but like Hank Williams Junior and, you know, Charlie Parker, all that kind of stuff, which is more traditional, I suppose. Yes. Yeah. Nowadays I don’t know what country and what ain’t anymore, because pop, that pop country got to be a thing, right? But then you got trap. I mean, that whole Lil Nas X thing was I don’t know if that’s country or not.
Lil Nas X [00:05:20] Hat is matte Black. Got the boots that is Black to match.
Panama Jackson [00:05:23] But I know Breeland and his song My Truck is a jam in my house.
Breeland [00:05:27] You can call me crazy, but don’t touch my truck.
Panama Jackson [00:05:33] And they got the Sam Hunt version. We’re talking about dusty floorboards and stuff like that. So, like, what is country nowadays?
Rissi Palmer [00:05:44] Well, first of all, this conversation is a conversation that happens probably every ten years, every ten, 15 years in the genre as it evolves and starts to bring in other genres and other elements of other music into it. But I think country music comes down to the basics of what it’s always been, which is these very simple yet complex stories about very simple things like very simple life coming from their small town, having, you know, having your heart broken, falling in love, talking about your childhood, um, telling stories like the emphasis is always on the stories. And so no matter how many trap beats you got behind you or, you know, how many guest rappers you have on your songs or anything like that, like it always comes down to the actual story. And so country music, it’s really funny that you ask because we’re in a bit of a transition right now because there’s like, there are the Breelands and then there’s like the the Jelly Rolls and all these other new artists that are coming along that are kind of pushing the limits. And then you’ve got artists like Luke Combs and Lainey Wilson, who are very traditional and hearken back to what people traditionally think of as country. And so these kind of things are happening in tandem. And it’s it’s really interesting. And it seems like based on sales and trends, that it’s kind of starting to move towards traditional again, which, like I said, happens every ten years.
Panama Jackson [00:07:25] Which is fascinating to me because, again, you know, like as I started doing deep dives, I came across like GangstaGrass, which is so I’m like, I got to here with this is like.
GangstaGrass [00:07:35] So what gets sowed, gets the water to grow and the sunlight to get the harvest ready to show.
Panama Jackson [00:07:41] And to me, as somebody who is a big music fan, so that’s, you know, that’s that’s why I kind of enter this as a huge music person. But certain sounds always just like gravitate. So I’m listening to this stuff and I’m always wondering, like internally how country artists feel about the I guess the cross genre, like is Taylor Swift even country anymore? Because I’ve always I thought she was country, but now she’s just making pop songs as far as I can tell, like she’s on all the pop stations. But I imagine with internally, community wise, it has to be like a constant conversation about and I hate to say like, who’s real country and what’s not? And like, these are these are the fights that your having internally, like y’all get together in the studio.
Rissi Palmer [00:08:24] Well, you know, what’s funny is like, okay, so there really are like two different industries and so we can get into race conversation and stuff like that because it does feel like there’s two different things going on. Like there is conflict and that sort of thing. But I think the conflict is not so much with the artists as it is with the audience and with the industry, because industry always wants to go or whatever’s hot and whatever’s popular. Like there a song called, lord have mercy, he was rapping about going to Applebee’s on a date night.
Panama Jackson [00:09:03] Okay.
Rissi Palmer [00:09:04] Applebee’s on a date night and then something else. And like, you know, arguing and wearing short shorts and something like that?
Walker Hayes [00:09:10] Yeah. We fancy like Applebee’s on a date night. Got the Bourbon Street steak with the Oreo shake.
Rissi Palmer [00:09:17] That was like one of the most popular songs. And it was huge on TikTok and all that. And it’s very clearly a country rap song. And not a lot of people have problems with that. But then whenever you have an artist like Breeland come in and incorporate gospel elements and some hip hop elements and all these kind of things, like people love what it does for streaming numbers.
Breeland [00:09:42] We went crazy out there last. We need savings in this pew.
Rissi Palmer [00:09:46] But then it becomes what’s happening to this genre was happening to our music and that sort of thing. So that’s why I think the pendulum is swinging back this way, because if you notice the context of all this is in the last three years there has been an influx of artists of color in the space.
Panama Jackson [00:10:06] Absolutely.
Rissi Palmer [00:10:07] People have been dabbling with rap in dabbling with trap beats and using drum machine. I remember when I was writing and this was in town and this was more like 12 years ago. People had started bringing drum machines to the writing sessions and stuff to have to play underneath us while we’re playing with our guitars. Yeah, so this is the thing that’s been going on for a while, but it only becomes a problem when all of a sudden everybody started, not only is the music starting to sound different, but the people are starting to look different. So yeah, again, I think it’s an internal. I don’t think it’s an artists issue because artists are gonna do what artists are gonna do and, and that is create and evolve and change and do different things. But the industry and the fandom and radio included in the industry are what bring up this isn’t country or this is country discussion.
Panama Jackson [00:11:03] That’s why I did love that Billy Ray Cyrus hopped on like Old Town Road is like ya’ll saying this ain’t, now say it’s not.
Billy Ray Cyrus [00:11:10] Hat down, cross town, living like a rock star.
[00:11:13] Or even Sam Hunt on My Truck like he gets on.
Sam Hunt [00:11:16] AC busted and the floorboards rusted. With a little bit loving it’ll fire right up.
Panama Jackson [00:11:23] And listen, I got to be honest. That Sam Hunt version goes. Like, I love that record. That’s the one we listen to. My kids love that song. Because it’s basically a trap song. That’s just you know, he talking about Jordans and you know, my kids don’t know what blunts are necessarily but you know, that’s what he’s talking about. That’s I just make sure they don’t say that. But.
Rissi Palmer [00:11:38] Right.
Panama Jackson [00:11:38] You know, it’s like it’s fascinating because I’m listening to this. I’m like, you could play this on a club. Like, I spin something, I run this in a club, and nobody would be the wiser of what’s going on because it hits so hard. I know for a fact some of the white people can’t stay in this. They probably look at this like he had to go infiltrate and again any day, which is where because I think of country like most genres of music, that our American base is probably like a Black art form that really gets, you know, like the blues and jazz and everything else. Like there’s a very Black throughline through all of this stuff. And then, you know, we’re here, we go like people like you take your infiltrating our art form, which I do think oddly, is how most people view country.
Rissi Palmer [00:12:22] 100%. I think the branding job that was done back in the twenties was excellent because it has stuck. And, you know, and it was reinforced in the seventies. There is an amazing paper. If anybody wants to go do a deep dive on this, this is this is great. She’s a doctoral candidate right now, so I can’t call her doctor yet, but soon to be Dr. Amanda Martinez, who have had on my show before. She’s brilliant. She wrote a paper about how country music became like seen as this right wing, patriotic American white art form. And it happened in the seventies and it’s because of Richard Nixon. And then it was continued by Ronald Reagan and really driven home in the eighties. And now that’s why you see like this shock and awe as to what the genre has become. And like, you know, when you have people like Chris Stapleton or Dolly Parton or Garth Brooks speaking out about, you know, injustices and social justice issues and people being shocked and that sort of thing. That’s why that happened, because this art form started, I mean, one of the basis instrument, two of the basis instruments, which are the fiddle and the banjo, are based on African instruments. I mean, the banjo even retained the shape of what it was when it was in Africa. And, you know, there’s evidence now that fiddle also like it’s Celtic, but it’s also African. And there are styles of playing and styles of, you know, fiddling that are that harking back to tribal. Pluckers in the early string bands were Black. And they were enslaved people. And. You know, in wanting to imitate us, they would often put on Blackface and tried to perform the songs exactly as as we did. And, you know, one of the first families of country music is the Carter family. June Carter Cash comes from the Carter family.
Panama Jackson [00:14:32] June Carter. Okay.
Rissi Palmer [00:14:34] Yeah. And one of the things that they’re known for is their very distinct Ma Carter’s very distinct picking style. Well, guess where she learned how to do that from a Black pastor named Leslie Riddle. And he was the air person, like in the Country Music Hall of Fame. There are lyrics in the hall, and they said, Let the circle be unbroken. Guess what Let the Circle Be Unbroken is? It’s a Black spiritual song that was taught to the Carter Family by Leslie Riddle. From the Black church. So, you know, so many of that I could go on and on. Tee Tot Payne taught, oh, my God, Hank Williams. Hank Williams is known as like, the forefather of country music. Like, one of the first icons. Tee Tot Payne was a poor Black man blues player. Hank Williams couldn’t even afford to pay him money for guitar lessons, so he gave him sandwiches in exchange. So like so and I didn’t like I said, I can go on and on and on. We are always there. We have always been there. But because of marketing. And because of, you know, musical redlining, things are the way that they are now and the way that we see them.
Panama Jackson [00:15:46] Absolutely. I’m going to take a real quick break here on Dear Culture. We’re going to come back and talk more about the musical redlining and everything you just said because it’s all fascinating and I’m learning so much. So stay tuned here on Dear Culture.
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Panama Jackson [00:16:59] We’re back here on Dear Culture with Rissi Palmer and we’re talking about the marketing that was done to basically turn country into a basically feeling like the white genre of music. That’s the way that is treated. So I have to ask. So I watched your I watched the documentary about you on American Masters was really fascinating because you kind of have, unfortunately, the story that so many artists have over the decades, right, where the the somebody took a shot, it didn’t work out. They blamed you, the them the record company took advantage of, you know, like having to fight for your own freedom and all that stuff in order to create the music you want to create. So I got to ask, though, because so you’re fighting label battles and all of that, but you’re also doing so in a genre that, like we’re talking about now, is predominantly white, you know, predominately, probably white male. I can’t I don’t know all the demographics, but yes, for the sake of argument, let’s go. This is a white male, like largely white male dominated, even though so my favorite, either Dolly Parton’s or, you know, the larger than life figures. So what’s it like as a Black woman taking up space here? Because that’s what it feels like you are doing and doing so in a very loud way. We’re going to talk about some of that loudness. What’s that like for you?
Rissi Palmer [00:18:08] It’s very different now than it was in 2007. And the early 2000s when I got started. I came to Nashville when I was 19, and so that was 2000. And we were not having these conversations back then. In fact, I was discouraged from having these conversations. It was more so like, put your head down, write the songs, sing the songs, and you know, don’t talk about it. It’s obvious that you’re Black, so we don’t need to talk about it. And so that was how the first half of my career was pretty much conducted. And I didn’t really I didn’t really get super politically political, so to speak, until, you know, after the record label and after everything was over. Like, I’ve always been Black, but it’s always been. You know, just just try to get along. And so I would describe the whole experience in the very beginning as like if you’ve ever been the only Black person in a situation like in school or, you know, at your job or anything like that, and it’s something that, you know, you’re doing something that you love. And so you and all the people that you’re there with have that in common. And, you know, you probably have a lot more in common with those people than you think that you do. But there is this one thing, this this thing where, you know, politically you might be different or. Racially, you’re different. And so it was for me, trying really hard to be myself. But also fit in. And try to figure out how to do those two things simultaneously. Like I’ve always worn my hair natural. So there was there’s no straight hair, easy like long Barbie doll hair easy. There’s not that. And they love that. You know, I’ve always like one of the things that I always wanted to do was to be at the time Ebony and Jet and Vibe magazine and all that, because I wanted to be in those magazines, because those are the magazines that were like, That’s famous to me. Well, you’re in Jet. You famous.
Panama Jackson [00:20:24] Right.
Rissi Palmer [00:20:25] When you’re in Ebony.
Panama Jackson [00:20:26] Jet’s definitely making it.
Rissi Palmer [00:20:27] Yes, you’re famous. And so, like, those are the things I was excited I was excited about Country Weekly, but I was really excited when I was in Jet. So just trying to keep those two things to stay true to those two things, it was a balancing act. And so there’s a lot of code switching. There was a lot of swallowing things that we now call microaggressions. I remember I used to go to radio station and the reaction to me would range from there were very cool people, very people that were very excited about me. And then there were people that were just like, So why did you choose country? Like you talked about the authenticity thing earlier. Like, what is country? I used to get asked that all the time. I went live one time with a radio station in the morning show, and they just started playing obscure country songs to see if I knew what they were. To testify in front of an audience, to see if I knew what I was talking about. But what they didn’t know is on the music head, so I was like, Oh, I know that that’s Faron Young and like that kind of thing. They’re like, Oh, okay. And, you know, and then there was the testing you like, Oh, well you’re beautiful for a Black woman. Or well you’re not Black Black.
Panama Jackson [00:21:39] Wow.
Rissi Palmer [00:21:39] And like, none of that. And so it just ranged from that sort of thing in like, sometimes I would be the only Black person in the venue besides people that were working there. And, you know, I played to all white audiences before I had played having to sing in front of a Confederate flag waving right in front of me. I was refused once to walk on a stage that literally had my name on the banner that was hanging above a security guard, didn’t want to let me on say as he was just like, What are you doing here? And I was like, I’m Rissi Palmer. They’re playing my song. I need to go out on stage. The promoter had to come and have them let me onstage. So just, you know, I have tons of stories like that. So it was just like, again, balancing what you love with balancing being true to who you are.
Panama Jackson [00:22:30] So does that feel like you’re just like you’re fighting the good fight, so to speak, having to do stuff like that? Because I can’t imagine having to play in front of a big Confederate flag, you know, like that. That’s like the the the most flashiness red light of all the time. Right? Like, whenever. You know, I grew I went to high school in Alabama, like I grew up around those things, right? People had them on their cars, everything. And it’s always annoying. Whether they wanted to be or not, the whole heritage not hate thing, whatever, nonesense. It’s a symbol of hate as far as I’m concerned. But you kind of, you know, you’re it’s like pushing through that to. It’s like a small step. It’s always one further step. Like, how frustrating is that? But then you always feel like there’s a bigger purpose to what you’re doing and and what you’re what you’re providing to the masses.
Rissi Palmer [00:23:21] So yes and no. I will say in the very beginning, I don’t know that I was like hyper aware of like I knew it and knew the historical ramifications of everything. And, you know, being the first Black woman in 20 years at that time to be on the charts, like I understood the gravity of that, but. I was just trying to make it as an artist. Like, I was still kind of thinking of myself as like, I’m trying to be Taylor Swift. I’m trying to be Carrie Underwood. I’m trying to be like all my contemporaries. I was trying to be those people. And so I was like, you know, this is this is kind of par for the course. But now I look at it more so as, No, you do this because you want to make sure that the next line of people coming behind you don’t have to worry about this. They don’t have to. Don’t have to think about these things like they really can be Carrie Underwood and Taylor Swift because they don’t have to worry about all these other, you know, all this other bull.
Panama Jackson [00:24:26] So. So you talked about Ebony and Jet and all these places, because I kind of want I want to shift a little bit because like in the country world, it seems like there’s a lot of fighting for acceptance. On the Black side, there’s a Black coin to this, this like acknowledgment at all. Right. Like it feels like ain’t nobody. Like, it’s just. We just ain’t listening to country music like that. And the reason I bring this up, I’ll make a real interesting comparison. So you have a song called Seeds.
Rissi Palmer [00:24:55] Don’t Believe what you’ve been sold. They can bury you by day, but never.
Panama Jackson [00:25:02] I saw that you wrote it in the aftermath of Michael Brown. You know what happened in Ferguson. And you know, you drop a video that I’m sure pissed off all manner of white people. And you mentioned that in the documentary.
Rissi Palmer [00:25:15] Can’t act too free, act too proud. Shine too bright, speak too loud.
Panama Jackson [00:25:22] So here’s the interesting thing about that Kendrick Lamar song We Going to Be Aright becomes the song of the movement effectively, right?
Kendrick Lamar – Alright [00:25:28] We gon be all right. Do you hear me?
[00:25:30] We had it synonymous with like the Black Lives Matter at this point. I feel like Seeds should be number two on that playlist. But yeah, I also don’t think, I saw the video for the first time when I’m doing research and stuff like that. Like it. We have such a not like we’re just not when people say country, Americana, folk, all this stuff, it’s just like, All right, that’s not I’ll get off it this road. I get off this exit. How do you shore up that? Like, what’s the. That has to be as frustrating as trying to get acceptance in a room with people that that don’t seem to want you there as like, here, guys, I’m out here making this music is for us. Like your revival album is amazing. I mean, and it’s it’s amazing in a way that’s not try hard. Like, it’s not like, you know, what I’m gonna say is going to be jacked up. But like, when I listen to some country songs by people, I hate the songs about America and all that. Like, come on, like, it drives me nuts. Like, stop pandering to people who don’t care about you. Right. You music is very authentic, and I swear to God, you sound like you were listening to Prince when you made some some song. I’m going to. It’s like diamonds and pearls to me. I’m like, Oh, this is Prince all day long, like one hundred percent. So what’s that part of it like, too? Because it’s Black music and Black people making it is Black music, right? But it doesn’t seem like it’s catching on in our community, at least from where I’m sitting in a way that it should be. And that’s got to be similarly frustrating.
Rissi Palmer [00:26:57] Oh, my God. You basically just name the plight of every Black country artist, Americana artist is that you want to you are a Black person, a proud Black person at that. And you you want to represent and you also want to do this music that’s not thought of as Black. And so you’re having to you’re straddling the fence like you’re you’re you’re kind of like you’re on your own island in a lot of ways because it’s like, well, Black people are just like. And then Black people are like, that’s white people music. And so then you don’t really have you know, you have nowhere to go in a lot of instances. I mean, I wish I had an answer for you because I don’t know. And that’s something that I think a lot about, especially in the work, the advocacy work that I do, because we deserve to have Black audience and there are Black bands. I think, though, there is a responsibility on Black media. And Black music bands, too. Not to abandon us. I was so happy. We were like CMT Awards last year. There was a whole bunch of us there. And I think part of the reason that Black media was so interested is because Monica was there and Anthony Mackie was the host, and so it was a ton of us, and they put all of our red carpet pictures on Bossip. I was hyped. Like you don’t understand excited.
Panama Jackson [00:28:27] I mean that’s a sign of making. You make it Bossip, boy, you in there.
Rissi Palmer [00:28:31] Listen and it wasn’t for doing dirt.
Panama Jackson [00:28:34] Right.
Rissi Palmer [00:28:35] I didn’t even have to be caught up in controversy in order to make it on to Bossip. And it was just like, This makes me so happy. And I made a post about it. I was just like, It makes us happy to be a part of Black media and to be a part of Black culture as we are because we’re Black too. And this is another way of being. This is just another. We’re multifaceted people. So I think the responsibility is on white people in the industry to make the venues feel safe. And to make the music feel safe. And then I also think it’s on Black people, too, to like, open your mind, expand your horizons and know that, you know, not all of us are. You know, like you said, like there are the patriotic songs, there are the, you know, America. And then there’s also the songs about, you know, like Willie Jones record. American Dreams is one of my favorite records.
Willie Jones – American Dreams [00:29:36] Proud to be a Black man. Livin’ in the land of the brave and the free. Yeah, I’m all American. And that American dream ain’t cheap.
Panama Jackson [00:29:47] It does beg the question about the summer to some degree, about like gatekeeping, Right. Like. Nowadays in order to like, break into all these other markets, like the playlists that, you know, all the streaming services create and stuff like that is typically how that’s how I find a lot of new music. Like, I’m getting older so I don’t have the patience to dig into music in the way that the way that I did when I was in my twenties. Right. But you know, it also I also wonder, like, how in the world like I guess I don’t I don’t you know, I don’t understand how to even make that part of it happen because. You know, the this the music is good, you know, like, I genuinely enjoy it. And listen, as far as I’m concerned, so much of what I hear from like, Black. You sound a lot like gospel to me. Like what? I’m listening to this. This sound like you’re straight about the church. The singing is all like, you know, there’s some genres you don’t have to really be able to sing in order to make it, but you’ll be singing, you know what I mean? Like, there’s some sanging going on, not just singing. And we love that in the Black community. We love sangers. We love people that can sing like really do it in people that, you know what? If you invited in the church, they could come into the front and sing a song if they wanted to. You know what I’m saying? Like, that’s it. That’s what I hear from a lot of you. But I always I’ve been you know, I’ve been thinking about that a lot. Like how in the world do you get? I think it’s an awareness thing. Maybe. Maybe I’m giving too much credit to just awareness. But, you know, and I don’t have an answer. I’ve been I’ve been thinking about that a lot. As I listen to your album and the albums of all these people, you know that I’ve been exposed to through your your radio show or through the songs that I’m hearing there and just the reading and stuff that I’ve done. Like, you know, I, I don’t I don’t have an answer either, obviously. But that’s just, you know, one of those things I’ve been thinking a lot about, like how in the world do you bring how do you put this music in front of people who are going to appreciate it Because it’s just good. You know, they just got to know what’s out there in the first place?
Rissi Palmer [00:31:36] Well, first, I think things like this are important. Like, I’m really grateful for you having me on the show, because this is a platform where, you know, there are the Black people and and you can and and you can hear me and know that I know that I am.
Panama Jackson [00:31:54] Right.
Rissi Palmer [00:31:55] And that and we can have these conversations. I think the first thing it most definitely is awareness. And so it would be awesome if BET integrated some of our videos into, well, they don’t play videos anymore.
Panama Jackson [00:32:11] You’re right.
Rissi Palmer [00:32:13] When there was a time when music videos were play like, it would be nice to be integrated in that. Like Country Girl, a lot of people don’t know this. My video for Country Girl was played on BET and and that was awesome.
Rissi Palmer – Country Girl [00:32:26] Show the world. You’re a country girl. .
Rissi Palmer [00:32:32] And, you know, Jimmie Allen was just nominated for Best New Artist at the NAACP Award. That’s something that’s really special. Brown played at the BET Awards. That special that’s important. Okay. So now next year, invite more of us and maybe think about making a category like we just have to. We have to be welcomed into the spaces as well. I guess this is a matter of just showing up and be like, Hey, I’m going to take a picture like you. We have to. It would be nice to be invited. It would be nice to be invited into the conversation. So that’s the first that’s that’s one of the steps for sure.
Panama Jackson [00:33:16] Yeah, absolutely. We’re going to take another break here. We come back, we got more with Rissi Palmer. All right. Welcome back to Dear Cultre. I’m here with Rissi Palmer and we’re talking about basically race and country music. That’s what we’ve been talking about, like the elephant in the room, right? Even I mean, that’s like, Yeah, the elephant in the room in a lot of these conversations. You just dropped a new single with Miko Marks who I discovered through your song.
Rissi Palmer – I’m Still [00:33:40] I’m still here.
Panama Jackson [00:33:45] Love like I love when I find something that leads me to other things and other people that open my mind to all kinds of stuff. I love that. So I appreciate you for that. Unintentionally doing that. Like, you know, I start listening and I’m like, okay, I’m all in. And funny enough, you mention how in the last segment we were talking about how being ourselves like this, like let people know, oh, is this like some country with Black? Like, you get it, you know, because that’s exactly what happen. When I listen to your radio show, I was like, oh, oh, oh, is this okay? So that’s why I said earlier, she gets it. All right. This is, you know, in a not that I would assume that you wouldn’t, but it’s just like you don’t know what you don’t know. Like, I don’t know what conversations are happening, but then I listen to the episodes. I’m like, Oh, yeah, okay. All right. Hundred percent. They’re so, you know, our own. You’re right about that. Like, like spaces that promote music in all this other and have these conversations need to be having full conversation about all of the music. You know, not just so, yeah, I’m with you. But anyway, your new single I’m Still Here. Love it. I love love watching some of the recording in the American Masters thing, like of the, you know, the creation and all that stuff. You know, like so is it so I’m assuming this is probably going to be coming out on the album soon or something like that. Like what’s. So the last album was 2019. Revival was 2019. Right. So what’s been doing in the meantime? What’s been going?
Rissi Palmer [00:35:08] Well, I was one of those artists that had the misfortune of releasing an album in October of 2019, thinking that I was going to be touring in 2020. And then, you know, the whole world fell apart. And so I started Color Me Country radio during the pandemic.
Panama Jackson [00:35:26] Fascinating show, by the way. I’ve learned so much. Listening to those episode is at the point where I just listen to the episodes. I’ve been going through the playlist like, Oh, let me just listen to this stuff because I’m learning so much and I’m really enjoying it. So good job. I love that show.
Rissi Palmer [00:35:37] Thank you so much. Like, actually the playlist is probably my favorite part is putting the music together for the show. But yeah, so I started doing that and I just want to drop this, Color ME Country is named that because of Linda Martell. Linda Martell is the first Black woman to ever play the Grand Ole Opry in 1968. And she is also, to this day, the highest charting Black solo female artist on the Billboard country charts. And that is at 22. And that was 1968. And then after her is Mickey Guyton, and then after her is me. And so just to give you an idea of what that’s like. So I have been having a ball doing it and having these conversations and telling the stories. And then shortly after that, I was approached the my friend Kelly McCartney, who was another host on Apple Music country. They hosted a Record Bean radio, and they are the reason why I have a show on Apple Music. They hooked me up. Kelly runs a fund called the Rainy Day Fund that gives grants, micro grants to artists of color, LGBTQ, plus and disabled artists. Kelly asked me what I like to start a fund for artists of color, specifically in country music and Americana. So then we started the Color Me Country Artist Grant Fund in December of 2021, and to date we have funded over 70 artists and raised over $100,000 to do that. So I run that. And then I also was asked to curate a stage which is a part of the documentary, the end, the last 15 minutes of the documentary.
Panama Jackson [00:37:28] I loved it. I thought that was amazing. It looked amazing. Like the whole thing, whatever. It was awesome.
Rissi Palmer [00:37:33] That’s a stage and it stays up. They built a house and it looks like smoke comes out the chimney and everything. Well this festival is the Long Road festival. It is in Leicestershire, you have to say with an accent Leicestershire England, which is like 2 hours outside of London. This is an Americana country music festival that happens, has been happening for the past five years and we were asked to curate a stage for an entire day, the Color Me Country Takeover Stage. And so last year I took seven female artists, indigenous, Latinx and Black over, including Miko and all expenses paid. All of this was paid for by donations to the fund. And I took my band, which is an all Black band, and we made country music for an entire day over in London. It was amazing. And so we’re going to do it again this year. What else do I do? I’m on I have a nonprofit now which is going to be the Color Me Country Foundation and artist advocacy is like a big thing for me. And so because I’ve been in an in been artists for the past 15 years, I think it’s really important for artists to know how to do all this stuff themselves so that they don’t sign predatory record contract management contracts. Is there so much you can do on your own if you just let you if you just believe in yourself?
Panama Jackson [00:39:01] Nowadays, especially nowadays.
Rissi Palmer [00:39:03] 100%. There’s no excuse at this point. And so I didn’t that’s why I started the fund, because money shouldn’t be a reason why you don’t do it. And so I’m trying to put together programing for all artists, not just artists of color, but everybody who’s an independent artist and wants to know how to do this, but with an emphasis on artists of color. So I do all of that, and I’m also a special correspondent for CMT Hot 20 Countdown. CMT is country music television. Um, and so I interview artists and then have really funny and sometimes strange conversation with, with country artists. And it’s fun and I have a really good time. So like that and I’m a mom, I have two little girls, 11 and three. And so, you know, I’m a I’m a volleyball mom. And ballet mom.
Panama Jackson [00:39:57] You doing all the things.So you busy?
Rissi Palmer [00:39:59] Yes.
Panama Jackson [00:39:59] You’re really busy because that’s great. Yeah, That ma that volleyball mom. My my daughter plays volleyball. So they’re volleyball moms.
Rissi Palmer [00:40:08] Every week. Well, I fly in sometimes early in the morning from a show. I just did it. I flew in from Virginia at, like, 5:00 in the morning so I could be at my daughter’s last volleyball tournament last weekend at 9 a.m.. Oh, so, you know, mom, life be life-in. You know, parent life is a whole thing.
Panama Jackson [00:40:30] Parent life is a whole thing. Absolutely. That’s what ya’ll need to be doing. Talk about what it’s like to be a parent and an artist. Where’s that show at? Because that’s what I need to see. Like all these people, they got all the kids in. I mean, Nick Cannon can they could probably do the show by himself, but, you know, like, it’s it’s there’s being an artist in creative that has to travel and do things and be all the places and all because it’s their livelihood, but also wanting to be an active parent. And I would imagine, like, you know, sexism is like women this hits ya’ll harder than it probably does men. There’s all this understanding of men. You go out there, I go on the road and make your money, do all the stuff in. But, you know, nowadays, you know, look, I’m a father of four. My wife runs an organization for mothers of color in the Washington, D.C. area. And all the dads I know we’re all very active participants, no matter what your jobs are at everything. So you know that like work that that work in parent life, it’s a lot. But I can imagine it’s even more so for artists who are traveling in like, you know, the people that we know we watch all on stage and then you get offstage and you hoppin an on the phone, a face time, a baby, you know, they just got in, is rocking the crowd. It’s like, hey, how are you? You know, So that’s there need to be something about that. Where’s that documentary? That’s what I need to see.
Rissi Palmer [00:41:45] I mean, part of the thing that I loved about the documentary that Davis, the director, captured, was that life, because he really is like my daughters a lot of times are backstage. And so, like, I’ll I’ll be I mean, I’m now no joke. I just did a show earlier this year where my three year old sat in a chair with headphones on watching Sesame Street while I did the show. And I’m watching her and like because my my husband said my my older daughter to D.C. for a vacation. So it was just me and the little one. And so she’s just watching Sesame Street while I’m doing the show. And she fell asleep in the chair while the show was going on. So like often that is in my life, but people don’t know that sitting in from the stage. So it’s a it’s a whole thing.
Panama Jackson [00:42:35] Indeed. Indeed. I would say one more break. We’re going to come back with two of my favorite segments, sort of Blackfessions and Blackmendations here on Dear Culture. I went back to my dear coach and I’m with Palmer and we have come to the end of the show. But the fun part of the show, but this whole conversation with fun and enlightening, amazing. So thank you so much. We do two things here deer culture with every guest. We do Blackfessions and Blackmendations. We start with the Blackfessions, which is a confession about your Blackness, something people will be surprised to learn about you because you’re Black. Do you have a Blackfession?
Rissi Palmer [00:43:09] Oh, my God. Okay.
Panama Jackson [00:43:12] You’re a country artist, which is interesting because it’s like.
Rissi Palmer [00:43:15] I know.
Panama Jackson [00:43:15] In itself that you show up and people like, are you a country singing like this? But your life is a Blackfession.
Rissi Palmer [00:43:21] My whole life is a Blackfession. What do you want? Let me see. Something that people would be surprised to know? I think. Well, first I feel like I’m a Will Ferrell head. Like back on a tour bus, when we would travel, we would have Chappelle’s Show DVD. Every Will Ferrell movie that has ever been made. And I at least once a day make a Will Ferrell reference like I call my daughter. I was like, You’re my little gentleman. So I get, you know, like, is that I always think of that kind of stuff, like those kind of movies like Superbad and like The Hangover and all that kind of they’re kind of like White Boy frat movies. Yeah, I love them.
Panama Jackson [00:44:13] Like, Yeah, I understand. I work in and I think Brit killed the guy into so many articles that I’ve written or I love Lamp. I throw that not so everybody that my apartment has many leather bound books and smells of rich mahogany like all the time.
Rissi Palmer [00:44:31] I have leather patches on my jacket. Yes.
Panama Jackson [00:44:34] You’re you, man. My favorite is don’t put that evil on me, Ricky Bobby. Like, that’s the you know, tell that to people. Anytime somebody does something crazy, it’s don’t put that evil on me, Ricky. So I’m with you 100%. Right there with.
Rissi Palmer [00:44:47] Thank you, baby Jesus. We’ve done that many times.
Panama Jackson [00:44:50] Yes. Got to do the whole prayer. My wife hates it. I throw that in there, you know, just like she hates doing. But God bless them, that got her on her toes. .
Rissi Palmer [00:45:01] That is sacrilegious. Don’t say it.
Panama Jackson [00:45:02] Yes, indeed. So sacrilegious, so good. Love it. All right. Well, so to counteract sometimes what could be, for some people, bad Blackfessions, we also do Blackmendations, which is a recommendation about something by, for and about Blackness, Black culture, the community. Anything you’re up on, interested? Do you have a Blackmendation for us?
Rissi Palmer [00:45:24] I do. I mean, I have to. I’m looking over my bookshelf like I read a bunch of things at the same time. So two things. I’ll give you two. One is the Color Me Country Artist Grant Fund. This is to help us continue to normalize Black people in Americana, country music and bluegrass spaces. So, you know, it doesn’t have to be, you don’t have to give me $10,000. Although I would love it if you gave me ten.
Panama Jackson [00:45:51] I’m sure.
Rissi Palmer [00:45:52] No, but, you know, it’s sometimes people just donate $10 and that’s amazing. And it’s wonderful. And it goes directly to artists. It also helps us to do the trip, What you’re going to do this year, and I’m trying to raise $70,000 by August, so, you know, fingers crossed. But yeah, so you can go to color me country dot com and there’s a tab and you can make a donation there and you can continue. You also see all of the artists that we give money to because you see like one of the guys, one of our grantees was on Tamron Hall a couple of weeks ago. Tony Evans Junior.
Panama Jackson [00:46:28] Tony Evers Junior. That’s right. I saw that interview. Yes I did. Yeah.
Rissi Palmer [00:46:32] And so Tony’s one of our early grantees. I found him on social media and you know, Brittney Spencer is another one of our early grantees and Chappell Hart, who are on America’s Got Talent, they were one of our early grantees as well. So, you know, you you see where your money’s going. So it’s it’s a worthwhile thing. And then books. So I’m a big book person. I love history and I love trying to understand why things are the way that they are. And so I’m reading this book is called A Taste for Brown Sugar. And it’s really good. And it talks about where this whole sexualized idea of Black women comes from. And like, the early like. I mean, back, back, back, back, back, back. Hundreds of years to, you know, where we are right now. And it’s it’s really fascinating. Very, very facinating. And especially raising daughters I’m very interested. So it’s great. It’s a great book.
Panama Jackson [00:47:33] Who’s the author?
Rissi Palmer [00:47:35] It is by Marielle Miller Young. And the name of the book is A Taste for Brown Sugar Black Women in Pornography.
Panama Jackson [00:47:42] Wow. Okay, that’s. I’ve never even heard of that book. So. Stay putting me up on game. I can appreciate it. Stay putting me up on game. You’re doing a good job. You’re doing a good job. All right. Where can people keep up with what you’ve got going on? The touring? New music? How can people keep up with Rissi Palmer?
Rissi Palmer [00:48:03] So the Beehive Center of all of this is Rissi Palmer dot com or Rissi Palmer music dot com. Both will take you to the same place. And you can find links to all my social media at Instagram. I don’t Twitter so much because Elon Musk frustrates and angers me. So but I do Instagram, I sometimes TikTok. But you can find all the links to everything at rissipalmer.com and or go to color me country dot com to find out about the show I post links. All of our playlists are free. So if you want to hear some of this Black country music the Panama is talking about, you can go there and I make a playlist for every episode. So they’re all available and yeah, just go there and you can see the tour. So you’re in D.C., so you need to come to me and Miko’s tour. You’re an invited guest if you want to come. We’re playing the Kennedy Center.
Panama Jackson [00:49:03] Oh, yeah, the Kennedy Center, too. Absolutely. I will. I will have. I will happily come.
Rissi Palmer [00:49:09] Come through.
Panama Jackson [00:49:11] Yeah, yeah. Don’t threaten me with a good time. It’s done and done. Listen, thank you so much for being here. This has been a great conversation. I appreciate your efforts. They will all because you got a lot of efforts and advocacy and music creation in ensuring that there’s space available for indigenous and people, just marginalized communities in the space where a lot of times that space doesn’t exist. So, you know, I appreciate you learning about it. Thank you for being here and all that you do. It’s genuinely appreciated. And I love learning though, and I learned a lot here. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Rissi Palmer [00:49:51] No, thank you so much. I really appreciate it. Like I said, these are these types of conversations are exactly what are needed in order to kind of bridge the gaps. So thank you so much for for going down the rabbit over and having me on. I appreciate it.
Panama Jackson [00:50:05] And thank you to everybody for listening to Dear Culture, which is an original podcast, theGrio Black Podcast Network. It is produced by Sasha Armstrong, edited by Geof Trudeau, and Regina Griffin is our director of podcasts. Again, my name is Panama Jackson. Thank you for listening. Have a Black one.
Being Black: The 80s [00:50:41] The eighties gave us unforgettable songs from Bob Marley, De La Soul and Public Enemy. I’m a Black man and I can never be a better. Being Black: The 80s is a podcast docu series hosted by me Touré looking at the most important issues of the eighties through the songs of the decade. We never missed out on a decade when crack kingpins controlled the streets but lost their humanity. You couldn’t be like no soft, smiling, happy go lucky drug dealer. You had to suppress that. It was a time when disco was part of gay liberation. It provided information to counter-narratives that were given to gay people by the straight world. This is the funkiest history class you’ll ever take. Join me, Touré for Being Black: The 80s on theGrio Black Podcast Network, or wherever you listen to podcasts.
