Little Brother, the iconic rap group from North Carolina is back on tour and celebrating the 20th anniversary of their debut album “The Listening.” Both Phonte and Big Pooh join Panama Jackson to talk about their journey from a trio to a duo, their evolution as artists, and their impact on stars like Kanye West.
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Panama Jackson [00:00:00] You are now listening to theGrio Black Podcast Network Black Culture Amplified. This episode is supported by FX’s Dear Mama, the saga of Afeni and Tupac Shakur. From award winning director Alan Hughes, this deeply personal, five part docu series shares an illuminating saga of mother and son. She was a revolutionary intellect and leader in the Black Panther Party. He was a rapper and political visionary who became known as one of the greatest rap artists of all time. Effects Dear Mama All new Friday’s on effects stream on Hulu. What’s going on, everybody? And welcome to Dear Culture, the podcast for buying about Black culture here at the Real Black Podcast Network. I’m your host Panama Jackson, and today is a very special episode for me. I have the pleasure of having one of my favorite hip hop groups of all time. On the show I get an opportunity to speak with We’re celebrating 50 years of hip hop and almost all year long really at the Grill, we’re going to be doing various shows about hip hop conversations and stuff like that. But today, the group that we have, which is a Little Brother Big Pooh and Phonte, if you listen to this podcast, you already know them. So all you have to go through the whole Questlove Supreme style introduction. Little Brother. Like I said, one of my favorite groups celebrating 20 years of a landmark hip hop album, which a lot of groups don’t get to say that they have in The Listening.
[00:01:31] It don’t matter because ain’t listening. They ain’t listening they thinking about their Timberlands. We got a better chance of blowing up in Switzerland. Holler if you hear it, because ain’t listening.
Panama Jackson [00:01:44] Let me welcome everybody to to Phonte and Big Pooh. How you brothers doing?
Big Pooh [00:01:47] Good, man. Good. How are you doing?
Panama Jackson [00:01:51] Man, I’m making it. I’m excited. Like, I’m really. I’m really happy to have you all here. First of all, how y’all doing? Y’all all right? It’s been a little rocky road.
Phonte [00:02:01] We had our tour this past month, and we just, the first leg I caught COVID, and then on the second leg Pooh caught COVID. So it was just. It was a rough time, but, you know, but we sold out all four of those shows and we did it on our own, you know, our people, our team, you know what I’m saying? And we made it, you know, successful.
Panama Jackson [00:02:22] So how does that feel like to be still selling out like the shows that you all put on the table for people Because y’all put on a great show. You always have. But what’s it like even 20 years into this?
Big Pooh [00:02:33] It’s own match, man. It’s one of those things where at this point in our careers, touring is probably one of what I know. Phonte is probably the least favorite thing he like to do. It’s not the least favorite thing for me, but it ain’t. It ain’t at the top of the favorite either, right? But I’m grateful because it’s a lot of cats that can’t do what we have the ability to do.
Panama Jackson [00:02:57] So let’s talk a bit about your career. And I want to I kind of want to go back to I know this is not where it all started, but when The Listening comes out in February of 2003, it always reminded me of this Kanye West kind of branded of the college thing like that. But, you know, that really wasn’t his lane, whereas you all I literally felt were the cats who were rapping for people like me. The actual college graduates. Yeah, had the metaphors. I understood. I had the places I understood. Did you all realize what you were making when you got started or where you all could be 20 years later?
Phonte [00:03:31] Absolutely not. I can just, you know, speaking for me, one of my biggest lessons over the course of my career, me and Pooh talk about this all the time, is just, you know, kind of your, you know, influence versus your impact. You know what I’m saying? Like in the sense that we didn’t realize because we didn’t sell a lot of records, You know what I’m saying? We just thought that, okay, well, you know, the people who know about us or the people who know about us, and we’re just kind of this little cult kind of group or this little cult band. And we have a small following. And that’s just what it is. We didn’t understand that. Yeah, the people who we have or our fans will listen to us, but there’s a whole other group of people behind the scenes, you know, actors, other rappers, ballplayers, other, you know, label executives, just people who are fans of music that really will listen to our stuff but weren’t very vocal about it, you know, weren’t really biggin’ us up and saying, Oh, man, Little Brother’s my favorite group. But, you know, but we would be out, you know, we’d be on tour and, you know, we’d meet somebody and, you know, Little Brother, Oh, I love y’all. And it would just be someone that just is like, Do we even think you knew who we were? You know? I mean, so that was one of the biggest lessons I learned of just how you can make something in a very insular way. But the impact of it goes far beyond anything that you could imagine. And that’s been one of the biggest lessons for me and Little Brother.
Panama Jackson [00:05:09] Y’all have been stamped by literally everybody. I’ve worked with every possible. Folks from Drake have cited your influences and I saw the Doja cat thing. Whatever you say. One of my favorite records of all, I remember the first time I met, 9th Wonder. I actually was like, Bro, what is the sample? This before Who Sampled and all those things. I need to know the sample dog I needed. Like I need that in my life. Ya’ll worked with TDE. Every producer I’ve ever loved and cared about in hip hop is like your Little Brother, right? The Questlove stamp, you know? And, you know, obviously. Phonte You work with Questlove on the Questlove Supreme podcast, which I probably shouldn’t say that on My own is my my favorite podcast, far and away. The impact versus influence thing is is significant in that. I genuinely feel like you all are one of the most influential groups. There are a lot of groups in hip hop who will never be remembered. Y’all will never be forgotten. Like yo ever sit back, reflect on that part of it. Like y’all literally cemented a spot in a in a genre of music in hip hop that will never be forgotten.
Big Pooh [00:06:07] Every now and again you have the moments where you like, damn, you know, look what we did. Or look at the impact, you know, that that we’ve had. But, you know, like, even when we when I saw they have put our name up at the Grammys when they was doing the fifth year of hip hop, and they had our name and it was front and center like that was that was one of the moments I was like, oh, censor word like, it was definitely one of the moments, it was just like, I expect us to always have quality. I expect excellence. But it’s still unexpected when people or when you step back and start seeing the high regard were held in. Not that we don’t deserve it. It’s just I’ve been so busy doing the work I don’t take a lot of time to. You know, sit back and acknowledge the work.
Phonte [00:07:06] It’s hard to be in the moment. It’s really hard to stay in the moment sometimes, particularly when you’re I think when you have the path that we have and that we. We charted our own course and we largely have been independent. And, you know, that was something that I just saw just in my years of just going through record labels where it was like every label that we put a record out on, if it was indie major, you know, big label, little label, the work was always ours, you know what I’m saying? None of those labels really made the work of us as artists, you know, any easier. And so for me, I just saw that in order for me to have any kind of success or financial success as an artist, I was going to have to take my career into my own hands. And when you operate from that perspective, it makes it even harder, I think, to kind of sit in and receive those flowers, because you’re not only thinking about your next move artistically, you also have to think about your next move financially because it’s your money and you know how. Zanes How you feel. Me So it’s like I always got to think about I what’s my next step? And you always have to be kind of, you know, three, four or five moves ahead and have to kind of forecast as best you can what the landscape is because it’s your livelihood. All of these shows in many ways, but particularly that New York show, it very much felt like a reunion.
Phonte [00:08:36] You know, there were people just as we celebrating 20 years in the game, you know, there were people in that crowd who’ve been pulling up on us for 20 years, you know what I’m saying? And, you know, there are people that, you know, we’ve seen, you know, people we’ve lost, you know, fans that we’ve lost, like long die hard fans that we’ve lost. There’s been, you know, fans we’ve seen go through divorces. I talk about it in the show, you know, we’ve seen cats go through divorces, we’ve seen people, you know, lose kids, you know, saying like we’ve really lived a life together and have grown up together. And I think that’s something that you just I think it’s rare that you get to see in hip hop. I think that’s something that is rarely allowed in hip hop, just the space to grow older in it and to mature in it and to have life experiences as a 40, 50 year old person but still be a fan of the music and still love the culture. And I think now as we celebrate 50 years of hip hop, I think now we’re just now getting to that space where we’re able to have those conversations and figure out what aging and what maturity and hip hop looks like and what that crowd looks like. But New York for me was very much a reminder of that.
Panama Jackson [00:09:49] Yeah, that’s really I want to take a real quick break. We’re going to come back and I kind of want to talk about that maturity and hip hop culture. All right. We’re back to our Dear Culture. And I’m still here with Little Brother, one of my favorite hip hop groups. And we’re talking about that, The Listening the album celebrating his 20 years. But Phonte you kind of close the last segment talking about like maturity in hip hop and growth, which is interesting because you all have stepped into that lane full scale, right? I know. I remember when Made The Lord Watch comes out like the topics are different, right? Like it’s a it’s grown man rap, you know what I’m saying? Charity Starts at Home. Like those out like those albums are grown. And I remember all the conversations that I was seeing would be like, Yeah, I hear what they talk. They talk about our lives. Like the lives of like those of us who are a little bit older now. Like when you walk into a project like what’s your thought? Like, you know what? It’s time to grow up on this record. Like we we we’re mature, we’re growing. Let’s go ahead and give them mature content. I hope they ride with us. Is that hope there or is it like you just know your fans that well?
Big Pooh [00:10:45] Um, I think we always just we always just talked about where we were in life and, and that was just what we did. Like it wasn’t a Let’s be grown this album. As our perspective changes, so does our perspective in the music age. You know, you know me I can’t still I mean, I could, but I can’t go right here talking about still trying to highlight women like I got a wife. You know what I mean?
Phonte [00:11:12] Like you’re not we’re not writing whatever you say in 2023. Like that just is not, you know,.
Big Pooh [00:11:18] No. It goes from whatever you say to good morning I like right it as a perspective change so should your rhymes. You know the words that you write, they should reflect that, you know, and that’s how you know, we feel. So that’s all we’ve done is through each stage of life. As we record it, we record it, that stage of life we were in. And it’s we always knew it’s more people like us than it isn’t. So even though you may gravitate to other things for escapism or the fantasy or the romanticism of these other things you flock to, at the end of the day, you’re like us and in and it’s so many people out there that feel like we’re voicing parts of their life in their life, they come up to us. We’re like, Yo, man, when you talk about X, Y, Z, that’s what I’m going through. And now I’m able to play this song for people who I couldn’t explain it for because that’s the phase of life there. And and so our audience it’s like they said, it’s been 20 years, like we’ve grown together.
Phonte [00:12:30] For me, it was just always a thing where I just felt the art was supposed to make people feel less alone in the world. You know what I’m saying? One of my teachers, my English teachers in high school would always say, you know, you you make the personal universal. You know what I’m saying? The more that you write about something like like I’ve never been inspired by an inspirational song ever in my life. Like, you know, like any song that was written with the specific purpose of this is just the all encompassing, inspirational song to make you feel good, Like, No, I hate those songs, you know? I mean, but, you know, you give me that song about, you know, that that one guy just talking about that one girl that broke his heart or that girl writing the song about, you know, that that guy that broke her heart or just somebody talking about something that’s very specific, losing a parent, You know what I’m saying? Ghostface is verse song impossible, just for example, where he talks about, you know, losing somebody.
Ghostface [00:13:34] He pointed to the charm on his neck with his last bit of energy left. Told me rock it with respect. Over this thing. The God holding his kids. Photogentic tears, just burst out my wig.
Phonte [00:13:44] Things like that that are just so personal that it just taps through a universal feeling inside you. You know, that feel even even if you’ve never actually been through, you know, the pain of watching somebody bleed out and die in front of you. You still listen to that verse and you understand. How it connects to you because it’s talking about loss and grief.
Panama Jackson [00:14:07] Do you ever go back and listen to The Listening? Yeah. Like, ever. Just like, sit back and just like, listen to it at this point.
Phonte [00:14:12] I actually did go through the listening sessions maybe like a few months ago, and just pulling up all the old multi tracks and listen to our voices, Listen to all the sounds in the background. Yeah, I listen to it now. Not like as enjoyment. Like just okay, I’m riding in my car and I’m put on to listening. Like best is not going to happen. I listen to it now more is almost I almost kind of just like as an anthropologist in some way, like let’s listen to it as a historical document.
Big Pooh [00:14:46] Time capsule.
Phonte [00:14:46] A Time capsule. 100 percent.
Panama Jackson [00:14:48] Time for a quick break. Stay with us. And we’re back. Like, I still listen to that album pretty regularly, honestly.
Phonte [00:14:55] Thank you, man.
Panama Jackson [00:14:57] I mean, because it’s just like I still laugh at the last verse on the listing, which I know all the words do, right? Because, you know, like the like when you say in your piece Jabar. Like, I still laugh at that because of the way like you are stuck the landing on so many of those songs and like, I don’t know, man, good, good music just transcends. But I do have a question. It’s funny you said that because, like, you don’t listen to stuff. Pooh, I have a question for you on a The Minstrel Show, which I kind of view as your De La Soul is Dead because I seem really pissed while making some of the stuff on this album. Even though those skits are some of the best ever on this album, Pooh, you make the song Sincerely, Yours.
Big Pooh [00:15:31] I Walk with the swag of a letterman. No amatuer here I’m a veteran. You couldn’t find many more who was better than. Big Pooh when he rockin the mic.
Panama Jackson [00:15:42] I always wonder, like, what may what compelled you to make that song? Because like, it sounds is genuine, obviously. But I’m like, was there was there like a significant criticism or just like, were people talking like you just weren’t that dude at that time?
Big Pooh [00:15:58] Yeah, this, this was this was the early days. I don’t want to say trolling, but this is the early days on internet or message boards. So when we put out The Listening, you know, the album was lauded. You know, people loved it. It was critically acclaimed, but there was also a faction of it. Of course I found them, but there was a faction of people that, you know, didn’t necessarily like me, right? They didn’t like my fit within the group. Or I think the misconception people have about groups is you got to have to Phonte’s, right? Or two Tips. You know,.
Phonte [00:16:40] Or two Prodigys.
Big Pooh [00:16:42] Or two Prodigys. Yeah. Like youth groups don’t work that way. You know what I’m saying? Like, you need different parts. You need people to feel different spaces within a group. And more most importantly, you need the personalities to work with each other. So I’m seeing the comments and I’m seeing people, you know, questioning why I’m in the group and that, you know, that hurt, right? Like that. That was, you know, I’m proud of this thing we did. I’m proud of this album we made. I’ve given my 125%. I gave everything I had to give. And then you have this type of response and that hurts even though it doesn’t come from within your group. I don’t know how to take this criticism from the Internet yet. Right. I don’t know how to brush this off. I don’t know how to just, ah, that’s just a few people.
Phonte [00:17:37] And to be honest, I mean, none of us did because the Internet at that time, it was new. It was new is particularly in the space that we were using it, you know, I mean, it was very new. And, you know, when we were coming up, I couldn’t log onto a message board and hit Q-Tip and be like, Yo, Midnight Marauders was garbage. You know, I’m saying, like, we did all right, We didn’t have that access. So this was something that we were all figuring out at the same time.
Big Pooh [00:18:02] Right. So The Listening we each had a solo song, so we wanted to continue that know as we were working and 9th was making beats and I was I would go to his house sometimes because sometimes that’s how you had to get the fresh beats. You had to be there when he was making them. So he was working and he and I heard him working on the beat. He was like, Yo, I got something for you. And when I heard it, I knew exactly what it was going to be. And it was that I wanted to take that moment to address how I was feeling, you know, and after coming off of The Listening. And so, I mean, that’s how I approached the whole Minstrel Show. But that was my time, my song, to actually really address it. So it was a thing, like I say, a lot of it was not understanding the what we were entering with the Internet and people being able to respond in real time to things and and not, I guess for me, not taking everything. So I was taking it personal. It’ll be like I took it very personal. And over time you learn not to take these things personal. It’s just, you know, everybody’s not going to like you. Everybody’s going to think, Oh, if you replace this guy with this person, then it’s going to work in 20 years later. I know that’s not how things work. That’s not how it works at all.
Panama Jackson [00:19:27] If Pras had a very prominent space in the Fugees and it worked and they can’t exist without him, then there ain’t no group they can exist without any doubt about it. Let me tell you, I had a whole argument with somebody about whether or not the Fugees could have existed without Pras. I’m like, Nah, his voice was too. It was too heavy.
Phonte [00:19:46] It was too distinct. Yeah.
Panama Jackson [00:19:47] So it brought so much by just being there. It didn’t matter if he and he didn’t have anything to say. He didn’t I mean, nobody would ever called Pras a good rapper. And I love Pras.
Phonte [00:19:56] Even even beyond that. You had no idea what role he played in a group behind the scenes, you know, he could have been the glue.
Panama Jackson [00:20:06] I mean, effectively, listen, I always go back to Zealots where Wyclef had like his probably his best verse ever, where you talk about the magazine says the girls, it was so low guys just I’m rapping. Like I was like this verse literally nailed the whole dynamic of everything they were going through what the.
Wyclef [00:20:22] Magazine says The girl should have went solo. The guy should stop rapping, vanish, like Menudo.
Panama Jackson [00:20:27] I always wanted. I’m so glad to hear cause I always wanted to ask that question. All right, we’re gonna take one more, but. Break here and then we’re going to come back. And I want to talk about the documentary here on Dear Culture. Our backyard Dear Culture with a Little Brother. And we’re talking about listening 20 years in the game since their debut album, the influential The Impact for the Listening dropped. But you all have a project coming out. I don’t know when. A year ago to the date that we’re recording this, you all dropped the trailer for the May The Lord Watch documentary was about Little Brother.
[00:20:56] And I was just like, Dog, all I wanted was my favorite rap group to get back together.
Drake [00:21:00] To say I’m a Little Brother fan would be an understatement.
[00:21:03] When thought that Little Brother had a record deal.
Doja Cat [00:21:06] That’s the best, bro. That’s one of my favorite verses in the entire fucking history of rap. Yeah,.
[00:21:11] I got some things to say about Little Brother, their underground legends.
Panama Jackson [00:21:16] One thing that y’all have always had that I genuinely think keeps your in both the consciousness and light as a part of all of these conversations is the drama that existed between y’all and 9th. Will they? Won’t they come back together? This documentary, I’m guessing, is going to address in some way kind of all of that stuff. It seems like.
Phonte [00:21:35] Everything. Everything.
Panama Jackson [00:21:36] All right. So why make the documentary? Why now? And it’s been a year since y’all dropped that trailer. Anyway, nothing sits.
Phonte [00:21:43] In making the documentary anyway, I tell you, like, one of the hardest things that the biggest thing to find is finding out what the story is. And you know, for us and again, I talk about this during our last show. For us, it was a moment, you know, we started this we started shooting in 2018, we started this in 2018. And it was very much a thing of just, okay, let’s start shooting less. We just was very running. Does that All right, let’s shoot this and let’s talk about this album. Let’s talk about this show. Let’s talk about, you know, this record deal. Let’s talk about, you know, you know, the time we went to London and did this or whatever. But then the pandemic hit, and that was when we kind of realized like, oh, we’re going to have to actually talk about ourselves in this shit. You got me. You’re going to have to actually, you know, talk about, you know, the things that made us and also, you know, some of the things that broke us as well. And it’s been like five years, you know, that we’ve been like working on it. And really during when COVID hit, that just gave us the time to really sit and unpack a lot. Me and Pooh had time to just sit and really repair our brotherhood. I mean, we had repaired it, you know, in terms of working through me, watching, making the album. And we definitely was was a that certainly was a healing journey for us. But when COVID hit and when quarantine hit and we were in lockdown, that really gave us the time to just unpack everything.
Big Pooh [00:23:21] We had nothing but time to talk.
Phonte [00:23:24] Yeah. And and you couldn’t run, you couldn’t hide. Yeah. I mean, so so that shows up in the doc as well. So, so yeah, that’s kind of where it’s at with it. And we talk about everything we talking about everything. It don’t make no sense for us to tell our story and like be half ass good about it. So we talk about all of the drama, the beef, everything we talk about it.
Panama Jackson [00:23:46] Time for a quick break. Stay with us. Are you all good now? I don’t know if that’s. I don’t know if you can answer that question with, like, the three of you all. Are you all good at this point or nah?
Big Pooh [00:24:00] For me. Te and I are great
Panama Jackson [00:24:04] Well, clearly, y’all are fine. I mean, you got to. He just. He just spent a minute talking about how y’all got it all out on the table and all that stuff. So y’all are clearly good.
[00:24:12] For me and I can only speak for myself. You know, and I think the documentary will come out and it will talk about all of this in detail. But, you know, for me personally, I just got to a point in my life where I was able to with knife, I was able to accept him and love him for the work that we did together and for the legacy that we left. And, you know, and he’s someone that, you know, I always have love and respect for, you know, just in terms of his genius for what he did and just for his, you know, for him really being a pioneer in terms of just being a producer that was using software at a time when not many mainstream producers were doing that, you know, when everyone else was just Nipsey or, you know, or whatever, you know, ACR, whatever he was, you know, making beats on a computer. And, you know, he was ridiculed in many ways for that. And so, you know, I’ll always have love for just that pioneering spirit and for the way that we were able to change each other’s lives. But I’m just at a point now where I realize that that was a part of our journey. And then our journey has just come to an end. And and I say that with no animosity or no bitterness or anything is just sometimes in life, people just go in different directions. And that’s where I’m at with it, and I can accept that. So. So meanwhile, me and Pooh are good and are in each other’s lives. 9th and I are not in each other’s lives. But from where I sit, which is also good because there’s clarity. You know, I mean, so that’s where I’m at with it.
Panama Jackson [00:25:54] Pooh?
Big Pooh [00:25:54] Te and I are great.
Panama Jackson [00:25:56] All right. My man said it all right there.
Phonte [00:26:02] If I didn’t say nothing, I they didn’t say that.
Panama Jackson [00:26:05] I look forward to the documentary. I’m very I’m very much looking there. There’s been very few documentaries I’ve been looking forward to in the way that I’m looking forward to this one. Last question before we move on, before we get to the last my favorite last segments, but what do you all view as your legacy in hip hop at this point?
Big Pooh [00:26:23] We’ve always been unapologetically us in the process, whether that was making music interviews.
Phonte [00:26:31] To our detriment and to our benefit.
[00:26:34] We we’ve always just been us, yeah, it didn’t matter like and all we did was just take what we, you know, saw from Tribe in De la Jungle, you know, and those artists that we listen to down to the younger days and the souls of misfits. There’s so many, so many groups and and that’s just what we aim to do.
Panama Jackson [00:26:57] Y’all had a very human story, Like it’s got breakups, it’s got people getting back to it like it’s human, right? Not like it was. It’s not like a catalog full of trapping, you know, like we just sell it. We sell a drug for 30 years, you know what I’m saying? Or, you know, we still on the exact same block. It’s got growth. It’s got all that other stuff. So I understand, like, y’all put yourself out there. People are going to people are going to respond to that in that kind of way. I’m going to say one more break. We come back. I’m going to my favorite segment here, their culture. All right. We’re back here, Dear Culture. And we’re sitting here with Phonte and Big Pooh from Little Brother. I’ve said it many times already with my favorite groups of all time. One of my favorite segments here, Dear Culture will be due to end the show as we do a Blackfession and Blackmendation. And we start with the Blackfession, which is a confession about your Blackness, something people will be surprised to know about you because you’re Black. Do you all have a Blackfession this year?
Phonte [00:27:46] Yes, I have a Blackfession this year. I have a Blackfession. I do not know, nor do I care to know, to learn how to play Spades.
Panama Jackson [00:27:56] You almost made me cuss. You don’t know how to play Spades?
Phonte [00:27:59] I don’t care, dog. So for me, like I don’t care. I like. I just don’t. So for me, cards have never really been my thing. But, you know, when I would play, I mean, Uno. Give me Uno over Spades all day, like, I don’t you know, I mean, like, if Uno is the supreme card game for me, the thing with Spades was that I just remember, like, my family would play and they’d be at the table playing and they’d be at the table playing and like, I’d be in the living room. I’ll be in the den or whatever, watching TV. And, you know, I watched like two or three episodes of something or whatever, watching the Smurfs or whatever the hell. And like I would go in the kitchen and they would still be playing. And I was just like, Oh my God, Like, this is the same game. Like, this is like, that’s not fun to me. Like, you know, I mean, like, I don’t want to be, you know what I’m saying, stuck at a table, you people for like, 3 hours, like on one game. Like that was also my thing for Monopoly kind of, like it was just this way too long to the point to even be entertaining. You know what I mean? So for me.
Panama Jackson [00:29:05] I don’t know, man.
Phonte [00:29:05] I just like, you know, because Bruno was quick, you know what I’m saying? You knew what it was. It’s just either you a somebody put a draw four down. Hey, you picking up for. Like it was what it was. Spades just seemed extremely just labor intensive and just it just does not seem like a gratifying game to me at all. And I have no desire to learn how to play it. And Black people. I’m sorry, but fuck that game.
Panama Jackson [00:29:31] I got it. I got to say, bro, I am genuinely surprised that you don’t know how to play Spades. I that that you caught me by surprise and that. But you seem like the kind of Do they know how to please? Not.
Phonte [00:29:42] But. But I believe it to be fair. Like I said, I’m just not a card player like I remember in the dorm. You know, sometimes the homes, a place in Tonk, you know what I mean? And so it was a little better because it was tough.
Panama Jackson [00:29:52] You get money for lunch, though.
Phonte [00:29:53] You got to pay money, right?
Panama Jackson [00:29:56] You give money.
Phonte [00:29:57] So I run a little Tonk in there. That was cool. But I’m not really much of like a card player or a gambler in that regard.
Big Pooh [00:30:04] Up until recently, as I’ve tried to make changes to my life, my diet, uh, I didn’t really take to Watermelon Man.
Phonte [00:30:15] I’m going ride with you on that. I’ma ride with you on that. I’ve got you.
Big Pooh [00:30:18] Yeah, I’ve got watermelon really wasn’t my I remember we were in, uh, we were at Roskill Festival and we were backstage.
Phonte [00:30:29] Fam. Okay. Yeah.
Big Pooh [00:30:30] And the lady was like.
Phonte [00:30:32] Roskilde Festival. This is in Denmark.
Big Pooh [00:30:35] In Denmark.
Phonte [00:30:36] So we’re not just around white people, we are around extra white people.
Big Pooh [00:30:40] Like extra white.
Phonte [00:30:41] Like prime white. Yeah. Viking. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Big Pooh [00:30:45] It’s, it’s. So we’re back there and they like, oh, we have fruit, we, we have watermelon and they set it all excitedly. And I was like, oh, they like watermelon. What you talkin about? Yeah. And everybody was, everybody with us looked at me like, What, you don’t like watermelon? Nah, I don’t do watermelon. Yeah. So that yes, I just recently really started eating watermelon like it. I’m tolerating watermelon.
Panama Jackson [00:31:10] I got to say, oddly, this is both on brand and surprising. Like they sound like skits from the minstrel show. It it’s all forgot to put on there but it also like it’s like on brand but it also surprises me at the same time. This is this is brilliant.
Phonte [00:31:29] Thank you. Yeah, but I’m with you watermelon, bro. I mean, I can eat it, but it never was the thing for me. I mean, we eat it in the summer, and like my grandma would cut it, she would put salt on hers, You know what I’m saying? So I remember it. But now I’m not a watermelon fan like that. I can eat it, but it’s not a thing.
Big Pooh [00:31:47] Yeah. You put a spread of fruit out on the table.
Phonte [00:31:50] Watermelon last.
Big Pooh [00:31:51] Watermelon would be last, unless there’s some honeydew melon or cantaloupe out there. Then I’ll go to the watermelon.
Panama Jackson [00:31:58] But I love watermelon. .
Phonte [00:32:02] Get that all the way out of it. I’m good on it.
Panama Jackson [00:32:04] I eat watermelon in front of white people and I play Spades with my community. So either.
Phonte [00:32:11] I love it.
[00:32:12] All right. This is my opportunity to prove that Black people are not a monolith. We say that all the time. We’re not a monolith. You know, my Blackfessions always prove that. To to be a palate cleanser for all this. We also ask folks to share a Blackmendation, which is a recommendation by, for and about something Black, something you’re interested in, something you got going on, something that’s for the community. Do you have a Blackmendation? Pooh, let’s start with you. You’ve got a Blackmendation?
Big Pooh [00:32:37] Oh, man, do I? I don’t know. I don’t know. I guess I’m reading Raekwon for Staircase to Stage. Yes. Raekwon has a book.
Panama Jackson [00:32:54] Yeah, it’s a good book, actually. I enjoyed the entire Wu-Tang suite of books are actually really good. U-God’s book is amazing.
Phonte [00:33:01] I’m actually I got to get that one next. I saw that one, that’s next. So I went from the Wu-Tang series or Hulu to now I’m reading the Wu-Tang books, so that probably be my Blackmendation.
Panama Jackson [00:33:14] U-God became one of my favorite members of the group after reading his book. I’m like, Dude, you got like, you got I got like the most interesting life. Like the rest of these guys. U-God was like, like in the streets. That series don’t really tell the full story. Like, U-God was like, Were you the plug? Like, when you’re the connect thing, right?
Big Pooh [00:33:37] The crazy thing is when I was in Atlanta and a3c 1 year and they headline one night and I went back to the hotel that they were staying there because they they have food. They were serving food at the restaurant. And so all of them were well, most of them were in the lobby. And as they were walking through, you could kind of tell that’s when you really tell U-God like, who U-God really is. Like not on the stage because he was kind of directing things and I was like, Oh, U-God got a little bit more tune than you think he does, like. And that was the moment I noticed that. So seeing the show and then hearing about the book, it just it makes it all makes it.
Panama Jackson [00:34:18] Yeah, definitely recommend that book, too. All right. Te, what you got?
Phonte [00:34:24] Blackmendation. Well, it’s crazy that he said, you know, the Raekwon book because my my Blackmendation was going to be the Wu-Tang series. Like, straight up. It was going to be Wu-Tang series. In terms of just ensemble cast, I really do think that it is a very underrated show and it is has one of the best Black ensemble cast working on TV right now. Like everybody is killing it. They are all just like killing their roles. I think in particular this third season, I think all the actors have had a chance to really grow into their roles are really like, Oh my God, Ashton more with him as really I think he’s really grown into that role now and he feels a lot more natural. I think early in early season, sometimes, like the voice is a little robotic and it was a little, you know, funny. But this season, like he he nails it. The brother. I don’t want to get into the brother that plays Divine is like killing that shit. Shamek is like he is Raekwon like he is. He is Rae. He is, he is not saying, you know, I’m just saying like he I mean, he is killing Rae. T.J. Adams is killing as Old Dirty Bastard like everybody showing up my brother Marcus Calendar as Divine, not Divine as Power. Is killing it. And it’s just something that, you know, like my wife, like she watched and she wasn’t even a fan of Wu-Tang, you know what I’m saying? So, you know, she just watches the show. And so it works for someone that was not a fan. The story is strong enough, but also, if you were a fan, like literally after every episode, I listen to some Wu-Tang, like the the the Liquid Swords episode, like I ran Liquid Swords that entire day, the Cuban Linx EP, I ran Cuban Linx. The Dirty ep is just, you know, I mean, it really for a fan is if someone just grew up on that group and just just had and has just so much love for them. It really is. I think they did a beautiful job of just document that story and just also giving us fan service as well. So yeah, the Wu-Tang joint on Hulu, Man, I love that show.
Big Pooh [00:36:35] And one more Blackmendation. One more.
Panama Jackson [00:36:37] All right, What you got?
Big Pooh [00:36:39] Go, stream. And purchase the De La catalog?
Phonte [00:36:44] Absolutely. 100%.
Big Pooh [00:36:46] Go stream and purchase the De La catalog.
Phonte [00:36:49] Period.
Big Pooh [00:36:50] The brothers own it now. And definitely go do that for the good brothers De La Soul.
Phonte [00:36:57] Yeah. Rest in peace. Blood too. You know, I’m saying that was No, I, big brother. So one other thing.
Panama Jackson [00:37:03] Time for a quick break. Stay with us. And we’re back. You mentioned earlier De La Soul is Dead being one of your favorite albums of all time? I say that is my favorite album, bar none of all time. I still remember where I was when I heard it the first time. Like I was on a bus in Germany. I grew up on a military base in Germany, and I remember hearing that. Just like all good stories, young lady I was interested in had the De La Soul tape was. I used to listen to this. It changed my life, you know. On the Wu-Tang. The Wu-Tang show. I actually this is my Blackfession, actually I wasn’t a Wu-Tang fan, like, ever. Now, part of that is because one of my boys was too much of a Wu-Tang fan. He would only play Wu-Tang. He’s the only one with a car. So he would be he would only let us listen to Wu-Tang in his car. So I kind of couldn’t stand Wu-Tang Clan. Watching this show has made me appreciate them in a way that I haven’t done in years. So now all I’ve been listening to was Enter The 36. Like, that’s all I’ve been listening to for like the past two weeks. Just I can’t stop playing this album and I’m so mad at myself for not appreciating it back in the mid-nineties because I just got tired of hearing ODB in the car. Yeah, right.
Phonte [00:38:11] Yeah. And I mean, listen, it was I mean, let’s be clear. I mean, Wu-Tang was something that, you know, a lot of people just don’t think they do now. But, you know, it sounded like nothing. I mean, it it kind of took a minute to get my head around. You know.
Panama Jackson [00:38:26] I’m a Southerner, by the way. I’m from down south. So, you know, we was in middle, right? We right. We was in our West Coast and southern stuff, which sounded way cleaner and way better, like in, you know.
Phonte [00:38:36] Even for East Coast rap and what East Coast rap was at that time, Wu-Tang sounded like nothing. You know what I’m saying? I mean, you had nine guys, you know, talking. You know, you know, you know, 5%, you know, lingo, which was a whole, you know, talking mathematics and all that, which is a whole nother thing to say. Then they had all these aliases and then it had like these kung fu skits in between it. And then Rza used like the same break like three or four times, and it was just dirty and like, I mean, it it was it really was revolutionary, you know? I mean, so you said you weren’t a fan. Like, I understand because it kind of took my head. It took me a minute to get my head around it as well.
Panama Jackson [00:39:15] Yeah. Well, brothers, I appreciate you all time. Thank you so much for being here. Where can people find Little Brother. Pooh, Te, where can they find which I got going on? How can people keep up with the Little Brother legacy as it’s being written?
Big Pooh [00:39:32] Obviously, you can catch us on Twitter and and Instagram. We both have our own personal pages. i’m rapper Big Pooh on Twitter, Instagram. He’s Phontigallo on Twitter and Instagram. And then we have Little Brother NC on Twitter and Instagram. And then you can go to Little Brother NC dot com, which is our website. And we have the store.
Phonte [00:39:58] Tour dates. Like everything that’s kind of the base for for everything Little Brother NC dot com but like to they were also have our own social as well you can check us there.
Panama Jackson [00:40:09] All right well thank you all so much for being here And dear coach this is truly like a I appreciate you all like as fans of the group, just as people and following your journey and wondering where it’s going and being a part of all of it through the music and all that stuff. Thank you for everything you all have given to the culture. Given the hip hop given to I mean, and even the work you all have going on now, like like I say, Questlove Supreme is my favorite podcast. I’ll listen to that like, religiously. That joint might youth that should be a college course on music. Just listening to these people tell these stories and all this stuff.
Phonte [00:40:42] That’s how it feels for me. Every every episode, I’m just like, Well, it’s time for me to go to class.
Panama Jackson [00:40:47] You know? And Pooh, I got to give you credit for this. The song Zone Out introduced me to Free Design. Which I had never heard of before that beat. For one I think that’s a be every rapper needs and they like that beat is so perfect so will you speed. I love that song. Like that song is amazing, but that I was like, Man, I this need to be the greatest remix of all time. You need to get everybody to everybody and their mama rap over that. That was so good. So you all have brought things individually as a group, as a culture, and it’s all appreciated. So thank you so much. Thank you for being here on Dear Culture. Dear Culture is an original podcast of theGrio Black Podcast Network. It is produced by Sasha Armstrong, and Regina Griffin is our managing editor of podcasts. I am Panama Jackson. Have a Black one.
[00:42:02] Yo, come look at what Michael Harriot just posted. Black Twitter. Come get yo, man. This man’s got no chill, and I love it. It’s this podcast episode for me. I was today years old when I found out Michael Harriot had a podcast. Subscribed.
Michael Harriot [00:42:21] I’m world famous Wypipologist Michael Harriot and this is TheGrio Daily.
[00:42:26] He goes off, too. On white supremacy, politics and the erasure of our history.
Michael Harriot [00:42:33] South Carolina was a majority Black state. Just think about what would happen if all of those enslaved people rebelled at once.
[00:42:41] No trolls, no cap, just facts.
Michael Harriot [00:42:44] I don’t have any evidence that good cops existence.
[00:42:48] Nah, we need the police. I feel you, but let them cook.
Michael Harriot [00:42:51] Every single police officer works for an institution that was founded in the beginning to oppress Black people.
[00:42:59] How am I just learning this? I’m telling you, this man knows his history. Like our real history, not the whitewashed stuff.
Michael Harriot [00:43:07] Let’s talk about the other Thomas Jefferson that no one ever talks about, right? By any measure, he was a racist.
[00:43:13] Why weren’t we taught this? We got to find the real tea for ourselves.
Michael Harriot [00:43:17] Every Black child in America lives in a separate country than the white privilege children.
[00:43:24] When Michael spits the truth, he helps us understand it. Plus, I could use it to shut down the Karens.
[00:43:29] You have to study white people because they are the ones who created all of these disparities.
[00:43:35] He’s the real deal. And his podcast is wising us up. That’s right. The Black Twitter king has a podcast like the man said, No trolls, no cap, just facts. theGrio Daily with Michael Harriot every Monday, Wednesday and Friday on theGrio Black Podcast Network and accessible wherever you find your favorite podcasts.
