It’s a reality TV takeover this week on Dear Culture as stars Eboni K. Williams, Claudia Jordan, and Tambra Cherie join Panama Jackson just days after Vanity Fair drops a tell-all exposé on the problematic culture of reality TV on Bravo. The ladies share racist, catty, and regretful experiences they’ve had in front of the cameras but also dive into the positive moments that are often overshadowed. Read more about the reality reckoning fallout on theGrio.com.
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[00:00:00] Panama Jackson: You are now listening to theGrio’s Black Podcast Network, Black Culture Amplified. What’s going on everybody? I’m Panama Jackson and welcome to Dear Culture. We have a jam packed show for you today featuring reality stars, Eboni K. Williams, Claudia Jordan, and Tamra Cherie. But before we get into those shenanigans, let me break down a little bit of the drama going on for those who might not be up on the reality reckoning.
[00:00:24] Eboni, who was the first Black housewife on the Real Housewives of New York, has not been shy about the racial tension she dealt with on the show. And now, a new Vanity Fair exposé is spilling all the tea about what’s happening behind the scenes. Eboni and former Real Housewife and businesswoman Bethany Frankel were among the former housewives interviewed in the piece.
[00:00:45] Eboni’s most problematic relationship on the show was with a woman named Ramona Singer. Singer has been accused of some pretty racist stuff, like saying that the crew had too many Black people and she couldn’t tell them apart, and that she had read a study that most Black people don’t know their fathers.
[00:00:59] But the one that got her in the most trouble was claiming that when she was young, she used to be called a catholic slur that was equivalent to being called the n word. An HR investigation followed, and when a reporter recently asked Ramona about the comments, she doubled down. And use the n word again to defend herself.
[00:01:18] This woman just never learns. That interaction got Ramona kicked off Bravo’s big fanfare conference called BravoCon. Ramona has denied any wrongdoing and says her comments are being exploited. Since the Vanity Fair article dropped, Eboni and Bethany have been beefing online, sharing screenshots of messages to each other, Bethany claiming the messages prove at one time Eboni was on her side, which Eboni denies, saying she’s not supporting Bethany’s push to have reality stars unionize.
[00:01:45] There’s a lot of shady business going on. But at the end of the day, everyone’s reality is clearly different. We spoke to Eboni, Claudia, and Tambra before this Vanity Fair expose dropped, but we still got into a lot of the things reality TV has consistently failed to get right. So let’s get to it. Hope you enjoy it.
[00:02:03] We have some vets of the reality show world, some people that you know for various reasons. Um. Who’ve been on shows that you know and love who are they’re part of the culture y’all So we’re gonna start with Eboni K Williams who is my colleague here at theGrio uh, who is the host of theGrio with Eboni K Williams?
[00:02:21] She has a judge show Equal justice with Eboni K. Williams. She’s a lawyer. She’s a cast former cast member of Real Housewives of New York, was the amazingly the first Black cast member like the entire 13 season run which sounds insane. It’s New york y’all. We have Claudia Jordan who is a talk show host at Fox Soul, a radio personality, former Real Housewives of Atlanta cast member.
[00:02:44] Um, she’s been on Deal or No Deal, The Apprentice, The Price is Right. Listen, you know her, we all know her, Claudia Jordan is here. And last but not least, we have Tambra Cherie. Who is currently part, a cast member on OWN’s Belle Collective. Which is being filmed in Jackson, Mississippi. And as somebody who has a show being filmed from, uh, Huntsville, Alabama.
[00:03:03] Where I went to high school. Seeing these places that you don’t normally expect to see, uh, reality shows. It’s exciting that Jackson’s getting that moment in the sun this way. Uh, she’s a media personality and a veteran radio host. Please give it up for Tambra Cherie. How are y’all doing? Thank you all for being here.
[00:03:19] Claudia Jordan: Good. Thanks for having us.
[00:03:21] Tambra Cheire: Good. Thank you great for having us.
[00:03:24] Panama Jackson: Yeah, so we’re gonna hop right into this. Look, reality shows as are a part of pop culture at this point. They just are. Like, it’s there’s probably more reality shows on TV than there are other type of shows because, let’s face it, we all like looking at what’s happening in reality.
[00:03:39] But what also happens is you get you get the people who love them and enjoy them for what they are, which is television good television most of the time then you have people who think culturally this is everything that’s wrong with the culture. Y’all are ruining the Black community. You have destroyed.
[00:03:53] You’re basically the new crack epidemic. Everybody had a yacht and a mansion before y’all showed up and destroyed everything that we had Um, you’re making us all look bad now to be clear. I don’t feel that way at all I’m, just speaking about what the community people in the community have said so. Eboni I kind of want to start with you, but I want to start with the good stuff, too Like what are some good things about reality tv?
[00:04:13] That people maybe don’t realize
[00:04:16] Eboni K. Williams: Speaking from my experience, Panama, you know, let’s kind of back it up. You made a statement like reality TV is a part of pop culture. I would take it a step further and say reality TV as of 2023 is the bedrock of popular culture in many ways. Um, I think it’s really, um, outlasted what most reasonable minds ever would have thought.
[00:04:38] Uh, you know, when you go back to real world over 20 something years ago, uh, you know, there’s also a business model, let’s just get to it, uh, that makes reality television and non scripted content, um, the cornerstone of linear and digital marketplace. Like, let’s just look at the ongoing actor strike, um, and the recently, uh, settled writer strike.
[00:04:59] When, when that type of thing happened, uh, which is, you know, uh, uh, unfortunate on many levels. It only incentivizes further the need of reality television. There used to be these things, uh, I believe you might’ve even been on one, Claudia, called soap operas. We don’t really have them anymore. Why? Because they’re too expensive to make.
[00:05:18] So let’s be really kind of, uh, more honest in, in starting the narrative around reality television. It exists for a litany of reasons. Um, it is now, I think, uh, the reason I’ll tell you, Panama, that I was delighted to be the very first Black woman to enter the space of Real Housewives of New York City is because, you know, I came at it with a clear intentionality.
[00:05:39] Um, I, I, I am not an entertainer by trade. I’m a public intellectual, let’s be very clear. Um, and when you are trying to sell a product, that’s not as sexy as let’s say, some other products in the industry, you got to be extremely creative about how you platform that product. Um, so when I wanted to bring visibility, um, and notoriety to, uh, a version of Black womanhood, that unfortunately is not platformed and promoted and amplified enough in our society, it only made sense to go to where the eyeballs are, and that is Housewives.
[00:06:14] Panama Jackson: That’s interesting. They’re very intentional about being there. I mean, and listen, every article that I ever read about anything going on there was all about specifically what you’re saying, the intentionality. I think that’s a good word to use. I don’t know that everybody shows up that way, but I do think, I do think that’s a, it’s appreciated that you, that you put so much thought into, to, to being there.
[00:06:33] Um, you know, Tamra, let me ask you too, because your show is set in Jackson, Mississippi, which, You know, it’s going through its own very, the water, you know, when people think of Jackson, I hate, I hate to say this. I’m just going to be honest about it. You know, it ain’t always the warm and fuzzy that people get when they think about Jackson, Mississippi.
[00:06:50] So it’s interesting that there’s a reality show set there. What has that experience been like filming a show in Jackson?
[00:06:58] Tambra Cheire: It’s been good, but like Eboni said, you go in it with very good intentions and you do have an intention. My intention, I wanted to showcase Jackson, Mississippi. I’m a radio personality in Jackson, Mississippi.
[00:07:10] You know, I’ve worked television from Jackson, Mississippi, and I wanted to help break some of those stereotypes because in radio, when I traveled to award shows. If I go to the BET Awards, if I go this and they ask where I’m from, when I say Jackson, Mississippi, a lot of the questions I get, why are you still there?
[00:07:26] And that’s just being honest. So if to me, I wanted, when they say a show was coming to Jackson, when they asked me about the show and they said it was based on Jackson and successful Black women in Jackson on the Oprah Winfrey network, it was a yes for me. Because I do want to break some of those stereotypes that are out there about Jackson and about the state of Mississippi.
[00:07:47] Panama Jackson: Yeah, I love that. I, I, I, I like, and appreciate that. For many reasons. Speaking of intentions, we’ve used that word a couple times. What was your intentionality about going on to that show and becoming like a full time cast member?
[00:07:58] Claudia Jordan: I went on as a friend. They felt that Kenya Moore needed a friend on the show and it was like six against one.
[00:08:04] And they felt like, you know what? You’re a friend of hers in real life. We didn’t talk all the time, but when we did, it was all good. So I was like, okay, let’s do it. Like, I, I’m tired of seeing constant fighting, constant bickering. Can we show some, some, some women that have each other’s back even if they’re wrong sometimes?
[00:08:21] Or despite the, the flaws that we all have. You know, I know a lot of reality stars like to pretend they’re so perfect and it’s so frustrating to me. Like I, I, I went on there like, I’m going to be real. I want to show a different version of a Black woman. I feel like we have so, the stereotypes are so annoying.
[00:08:38] You know, let’s get the sassy girl on the show. Oh, got to get a Black girl. Let’s get a girl that’s going to go off on someone or just the same stereotypes over and over and over again. And I want to represent the women that don’t feel like I don’t fit into that box. So that was my intention, and then I hate this whole thing about acting Black, speaking Black.
[00:08:58] It bugs me. It’s always bugged the hell out of me. It suggests that we’re just one model. One, one, one version throughout all how many millions of us there are in the country. It’s, it’s, it’s really, it was very offensive to me always. So I just felt like, you know, there’s a lot of us like on this panel that aren’t the usual go to when they think of a Black woman on a reality show.
[00:09:20] And I love. that finally we were able to show that. And that was my intention on going on there. You know, I’m, I’m, um, you know, all my little weird quirky things I have about me. That’s not so typical. Yes, I can’t do, I can’t dance the way I’m supposed to or cook the way I’m supposed to, but I have my own version and I’m still a Black woman.
[00:09:38] You know what I mean? That doesn’t take away from my Blackness. So that was my thing going on there.
[00:09:42] Panama Jackson: Yeah. I mean, I’m, I’m one of those people that genuinely appreciates, um, that aspect of reality TV, if I’m being honest, like I, I liked it. It kind of showcases all of us, right? Like I don’t, I, and this is going to sound crazy.
[00:09:55] I don’t mind when people get into it and get messy on these shows. Cause we messy people. And I don’t mean like Black people in general, just humans are messy, right? Like you put people in pressure cooker situations. Things gonna happen. People are gonna not get along and people are gonna get along and there’s gonna be all kind of different relationships that happen.
[00:10:10] So to me, it just looks a lot like life. Like I don’t, that’s why I’m not one of those people that has a struggle with watching reality. Like, Oh no, I feel like it makes me look bad. It just, it just looks like the version of life that maybe I don’t live necessarily, but I know people like this, so it’s all good for me.
[00:10:25] Eboni K. Williams: I kind of like to speak to that issue of, uh, limited representation, right? So I took this class in undergrad at UNC Chapel Hill, and it was called Blacks in Television and Film. And one of the things that I will never forget was 17 years old, right, is this phenomenon that’s very real that says that when there are limits, to the ways and quantities in which you are represented in mainstream media.
[00:10:51] You have a disproportionate burden slash responsibility to represent, um, in a particular way, said another way, Real Housewives of New Jersey can throw tables. They can throw glasses. They can draw blood. They can fist fight, toss wigs and do all of that. And they get to do that. They have permission to do that.
[00:11:09] And they don’t have the responsibility of representing white women. everywhere. Why? Because there is plentiful representations of white womanhood everywhere we look versus whether it’s Claudia, whether it’s Tamra on Black ensemble shows, they have a respectability politic that comes into play that white women never have to contend with on these platforms because they unfortunately represent a underrepresented group of people, which are Black women.
[00:11:39] And then I had a really unique, almost a singularly unique experience being the only Black woman in an entirely white cast and not just a white cast, a very particular kind of ignorant white group of women. I don’t like the way you said. That people that don’t speak and adhere to your social standards.
[00:11:56] Luann de Lesseps: That’s not what I said.
[00:11:57] Eboni K. Williams: Yes, it is.
[00:11:58] Luann de Lesseps: Not what I said.
[00:11:58] Eboni K. Williams: It speaks to your education.
[00:12:04] So I ended up having to run a master class. On what it is to be, uh, an educated, sophisticated Black woman dealing with ignorant white co workers.
[00:12:14] Panama Jackson: Time for a quick break. Stay with us.
[00:12:18] Toure: I’m Toure. Join us for crazy true stories about stars who I really hung out with like
[00:12:24] Snoop, Jay Z, Prince, Kanye. And the time I got kidnapped by Suge Knight.
[00:12:31] Don’t miss my animated series, Star Stories with Toure, from theGrio Black Podcast Network.
[00:12:43] Panama Jackson: And we’re back. But do you feel like the burden to, like, represent the culture in a certain way by being on these reality shows? Like, is there just this, like, weight on you from… You know, having to, like, make the culture look a certain way or something?
[00:12:59] Claudia Jordan: There’s, there’s always pressure as a Black woman. We don’t get the same grace as other people, including our male counterparts.
[00:13:06] Like, there’s always an unnecessary extra, little bit of extra weight on us. And, and, and, and that, a lot of it comes from our fellow women too. I go hard for women, but a lot of times we don’t get it back in return and we have a long way to go. My biggest critics have been Black women. And that’s the people who I support and champion the most.
[00:13:26] So it’s like kind of a, it’s, it’s tricky sometimes it’s frustrating. But if you really believe in that, like, I still want to represent for Black women, so I’m not going to give up, but I’m not going to also bite my tongue and say that it has been easy because it’s not. You know, a lot of times like we nitpick so much, every little thing, every single word, every single, everything that comes out and all three of us have been greatly criticized in the media, right?
[00:13:48] When we are trying, I think these three, us three in particular, have gone out of our way to try to be positive, to try to be, to represent intelligence, to try to represent class and still it’s not enough. They’re still, aha, gotcha, gotcha bitch, you said this. You ain’t shit.
[00:14:07] You know what I mean? And it’s like to still come on here with a smile on your face and still care so much.
[00:14:13] Cause many, many times I’m sure we all could have been at a place where we could have been, you know what? Eff it. I’m tired. I’m going to just go for. So why do I put this burden on my back? Why do I have this cape on my back for people who seem to not give a damn about me. But at the end of the day, if we quit, we’re contributing to, you know, the negative, the negativity against us, I guess. I don’t know.
[00:14:32] Eboni K. Williams: The three of us in particularly represent. An aesthetic and a particular type of Black woman that for far too long in society and in our industry, we were the only types of Black women even permitted in these spaces. Right. Let’s, let’s just kind of start with that. And so I think some of the responsibility, um, I’ll speak for myself for a second.
[00:14:56] I particularly felt going into Real Housewives of New York was knowing the duality of that expectation, right? Like even when they announced my cast in Panama, um, some of the first responses were, So glad New York is finally getting a Black woman dot, dot, dot, but of course they’re going to go with that kind of Black woman, right?
[00:15:18] Um, then, you know, became, and, and, and actually I’m, I’m not even that mad at it because I do have an intellectual understanding of the critique, right? That’s a social critique that says, here we are again. Um, privileging, um, white proximity, privileging, you know, a type of so called palatable, that was back when they thought it was going to be palatable, that was funny, um, palatable Black womanhood, um, that the industry is more comfortable with, versus some of our more melanated sisters, versus some of our curvier sisters, versus even maybe, oh, I don’t know, some older sisters even, right, and so I think when you, when I come into the space knowing that that privilege is leading part of the narrative around the expectation of who I’m going to be on this show.
[00:16:07] I take that very seriously to answer your question directly, Panama is a responsibility that I’ve been very aware of. Um, since I was a kid in these visibility spaces. And it’s something that I say, okay. If I’m going to be invited onto this platform and into the arena due to, yes, a recognized, acknowledged point of privilege, then I have even more responsibility to make broad Black impact with that.
[00:16:36] You following me? So, yes, I’ll give you an example. Uh, I was the only Black woman that was a cast member that held an apple, but the woman I, and I could have filmed with anybody I wanted to, you know, kind of like Claudia was saying, with these shows, they want people to have friends of, and bring your real life friends.
[00:16:53] I chose, yes, she’s one of my closest friends in real life. It’s not an accident that she’s a deeply melanated Ethiopian sister because I wanted to show that type of Black woman on the show. Devyn Simone, who is a public figure. She’s, many of us have worked with Devyn. She’s a host, she’s a matchmaker, she’s all these things.
[00:17:09] Again, a deeper, complected sister. I want y’all to see, like y’all might have only invited me to the party, but y’all gonna get all this melanin. Y’all are gonna get all this Black womanhood. You’re gonna get 32 flavors of different Black women that you do not know how to make space for quite yet, but I’m going to show you how.
[00:17:25] So that, that was a part of the responsibility and the, um, you know, kind of, I think the, the onus that comes for those of us that get to be in these spaces due to, um, a really problematic aspect of privilege.
[00:17:42] Panama Jackson: Yeah. And Tambra, I’m curious about your perspective too, because I, and, and I, as a, as a Southerner, I take these things.
[00:17:50] Even like I feel more strongly about some of these things just because especially showcasing places that don’t typically get showcased I wonder if you know being in Jackson and I don’t mean to keep harping on that part of it but you know being in a space that typically people don’t get the chance to really get it to get a look at well now since Dion, you know Dion done left and everything to buy but You know, what?
[00:18:12] What is that like being also the southern if the show is the Bell Collective, right? It’s you know, it’s the Bell Collective which gives that idea of the Southern Bell kind of thing to like what is What does that representation feel like for you in that space?
[00:18:25] Tambra Cheire: Well, to be honest, I guess with our show, that was one of the reasons I was very excited about the show.
[00:18:30] Because to me, as it came to me, it was about successful Black women in Jackson, Mississippi. So that’s one of the reasons why I was excited about the show just to highlight that in itself. And as far as coming with the responsibility, I mean, to be honest with you guys, for me, because I’ve been in a radio personality, I’m the only female radio personality at my station.
[00:18:57] You know, I’ve always had a target and something to represent on my end, coming from Mississippi, to be honest with you, coming from Mississippi, I’ve always had to represent in any room because they looked at me different and that’s just being honest, as transparent as I can be in rooms everywhere else across the country.
[00:19:15] So to me, I’ve always felt that I’ve had to have some type of responsibility to represent. That’s just the honest answer for me.
[00:19:24] Panama Jackson: Yeah, and I appreciate that. So. I have a, I have a kind of a fun question here. You know, I, I watch some of these shows. I think, I see the, I see the shenanigans go down on occasion.
[00:19:35] You know, sometimes people don’t like each other one minute, then they like each other the next minute. But I don’t really know. Like, I try not to read the trade magazines and I can only spend so much time keeping up with all of this stuff on all the shows. But do y’all really all be friends behind the scenes and just beefing on the actual show?
[00:19:50] Or does this stuff get real like it’s in the streets like on site you’d be ready to handle business on the street sometimes. Am I participating in the negative portrayal right here with this question? I don’t.
[00:20:01] Claudia Jordan: No, it’s a fair question. I thought, okay, before I went on a lot of Atlanta housewives, I had a long resume with a lot of other shows.
[00:20:09] To me, it was this one more line on the resume. I’m here for a check. I am here to work, make money and be a somewhat of a decent example on television. That’s my motivation, right? I go on this show thinking we’ll do a scene and then that’s it. We can go for a drink later on. I did not think it would cross over into real life.
[00:20:28] When I was in Atlanta, my car was broken into. Laptop was stolen, things started popping up, threats started coming in, all these weird Google numbers, all this weird stuff was happening. I did not think, I thought people who have been on reality shows for a long time would not really take it home. That’s why I was like laughing half the time like, y’all heifers cannot be serious.
[00:20:49] You’re really mad that I shot with someone you don’t like when you know producers are telling me to shoot with a person you don’t like? Like grow up. Um, that was kind of what was shocking to me. Cause I’m like, we all know reality TV, ain’t really all reality. Cause girlfriend, you know, you were renting that outfit.
[00:21:09] You know, you don’t really live there, you know, that ain’t your real boyfriend, you know, you knew about that scam, you know, you’re not as religious as you pretend to be, big old freak behind closed, stop it, knock it off, you know, you’re really cheating. You know, you don’t really have that degree. Please like I’ll go along with it though.
[00:21:29] We can play the game. Sure, let’s play the game. Let’s make good reality tv and let’s all go for a drink at Houston’s or wherever y’all like in Atlanta, and we can move on like I just thought that was so goofy to bring it home. Like, I was like, you really are mad over a scene. And then what I also hate was you may actually make progress with someone on the show, right?
[00:21:50] And really squash a beef, right? Me, if I squash with someone on camera, off camera, I actually am naive enough to think it’s really squashed, right? So you squash a beef. And then the problem with reality TV is three months later when it actually airs. And they see what you said in your confessional, you see what they said, they mad again.
[00:22:11] And you’re like, well girl, of course I was reading you in the confessional, you was reading me. That’s what I hate. That’s another thing I can’t stand about it. So yeah, it does get very real. And I think we’ll have a better chokehold on them and them having a chokehold on us. When we manipulate the game, like they are manipulating us.
[00:22:28] They love seeing Black women fight on television. But give them a little show and then go for drinks afterwards. Be like, girl, you know what I mean? Like, I, I just, I, that’s why I can’t stand, like.
[00:22:38] Eboni K. Williams: Let me tell you why, let me tell you why that will never happen, Claudia Durant.
[00:22:41] Claudia Jordan: It won’t, it won’t, but I wish.
[00:22:44] Eboni K. Williams: You know, it’s really, it’s a beautiful, um, framework that will never take shape because of this reason, right? By the way, I just want you to make sure that everybody listening caught that shade, that Claudia added Houston’s to the don’t take her on a first date list.
[00:22:58] Panama Jackson: Unfairly, by the way, I like Houston’s is
[00:23:02] Claudia Jordan: Like the, like, in Atlanta, Houston’s like, Houston’s, Houston’s, Houston’s.
[00:23:05] And I’m like, there’s other restaurants besides Houston’s. I don’t know.
[00:23:09] Eboni K. Williams: Okay, well, personally, I’ll just take a baby bag slab of ribs. Anyway, but that’s just me. Also, I feel like that about Catch and L. A., but, you know, y’all always want to go to fucking Catch. Anyway, um. I’m a crustacean girl. Okay, so here’s the thing.
[00:23:22] Why it won’t ever happen, Claudia. What y’all see people fighting about on reality TV 99 percent of the time is not the thing they’re actually fighting about. So let’s go back to something else Claudia said a minute ago, which is that she came on the show with a very long resume. So this is actually very interesting, Panama, that you have convened this particular panel here, uh, of the three of us to have this conversation about reality TV, because there’s several things that we share in common that most people on reality TV do not have that apply to them.
[00:23:50] Number one, all of us were already known names in our respective communities and industries before. A Real Housewives of Atlanta camera went up before Real Housewives of New York camera went up or Bell Collective camera went up. Let’s be clear and that’s not braggadocious. That’s just true tea. That’s just a fact.
[00:24:10] We have skills. Okay, you’re looking at three journalists. Let’s let’s also start with that. Okay. So if there was never a RHONY, if there was never an Atlanta housewives, if there was never an OWN, uh, show, that is one of my personal favorite reality shows. I was just telling Tambra this, um, all three of us are still going to be on red carpets.
[00:24:28] All three of us are still going to be on television. All three of us are still going to be nominated for NAACP awards and so on and so forth. And that makes us unique from our participation. Uh, co stars. Okay. Because many of the women that we share these screens with will never be on television, but for these platforms and that’s not shade.
[00:24:47] That is a fact, you know, who is picking up a camera and running around following Ramona Singer anywhere. Never except for this context.
[00:24:57] Claudia Jordan: They about to be mad about this interview.
[00:24:59] Eboni K. Williams: I have to name it. Okay. This bitch could go to the moon and nobody would care, but for you being a housewife. Okay. So now let’s just put that on the table.
[00:25:16] So, so while Claudia, can show up, be a professional, let’s shoot a scene, let’s all get paid, and let’s move on. Because as we saw, Claudia and I were both only one season housewives, and um, clearly the checks are still clearing plentifully. And they’re still talking about us. And they’re still talking about us!
[00:25:35] All the fucking time! It’s incredible, right? So that is why our castmates take it much more seriously. Not, not the work. But they’re much deep. Here’s a better way to say it. They are deeper threatened when certain things happen on camera. So it it, it’s not that Claudia made up with somebody on camera, and so now I’m mad.
[00:25:59] I’m mad because oh shit, come contract, renewal time, everything comes back to contract renewal time, Panama. ’cause these women are living, eating, and breathing off of these particular show checks. Okay? They have single income streams. Tambra, am I saying too much?
[00:26:16] Tambra Cheire: No, keep going, girl, please.
[00:26:18] Eboni K. Williams: They have single income streams, and so therefore they are disproportionately dependent on these particular checks.
[00:26:27] Right. And so if Tamper was never on bail collective ever again. Sis is still being paid in multiple different capacities and so until that is the level playing field where everybody is more entrepreneurial. Everybody is more kind of bossed up as they all want to pretend to be on these shows, Panama, and a RHONY check, an Atlanta check, a Bell Collective check, a, uh, a, uh, what’s it, a Huntsville check is one of many checks so then we can kind of move as adults.
[00:26:56] You have a bunch of fucking children who are sucking on the teat of reality television for their mere survival.
[00:27:04] Claudia Jordan: Um, sorry, Tambra. I know we’ve been me and Eboni been talking a lot. I want to say one more thing, but I’m sorry, Tambra, and I’m going to shut up for a minute, just for a couple minutes.
[00:27:12] Also, you’re right.
[00:27:13] You’re right,
[00:27:13] Eboni. When you are in a scene with someone that has nothing to lose and this is the end all be all, but yet after Housewives of Atlanta or Housewives of New York or the Belle Collective, we actually are thinking about, well, I still want to work for an NBC, ABC, CBS, Fox, which I, we have, we will, we’ve done, we will, we’re on, we’re in that, you know, on those short lists, right?
[00:27:36] I can’t go as hard in a scene because of my future that I know I’m going to do. This is a
[00:27:43] stop on the way. This is one of the bus stops on the way to the top. Right? So.
[00:27:49] Eboni K. Williams: You lost me at bus stop Claudia. You lost me at bus stop. I’m just playing.
[00:27:57] That is why you get us all in so much trouble. Oh my god.
[00:28:02] Panama Jackson: I don’t even know why I’m here.
[00:28:03] Claudia Jordan: Yeah, it’s difficult. It’s difficult when you’re in a scene with someone that, you know, they may have limited vocabulary and then they have also nothing to lose. So then you are, it’s you versus them, so then first of all you look like an elitist, you look like a bitch, and then you are running circles around someone intellectually, and then they have to resort to ghetto tactics.
[00:28:24] Curse you out and just go low and you can’t really do that and then you appear to be more boring or soft or whatever I don’t know, but when you are going up against in a scene with someone that has nothing to lose, you’re right, Eboni, it is very difficult.
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[00:29:07] Panama Jackson: Alright, we’re back here on Dear Culture. We’re talking reality show television with Eboni K. Williams, Claudia Jordan, and Tambra Cherie. It is fireworks as is to be expected. And I mean, I have not spent this much time laughing at responses in quite some time. So thank you. I’m enjoying this immensely. Um, I want to circle back to something you started with Eboni, which was you started talking about like the business of reality shows, right?
[00:29:33] Like the business of it all and how much this really is a business, right? Like. Reality shows are, as you call it, the bedrock of pop culture because, well, there’s so many other things going on there. Strikes in Hollywood that have impacted writers and actors, so it limits the type of content that can be created.
[00:29:48] Um, so reality show is a lot, is a, is an immediate fallback that makes a lot of money and has an entire ecosystem that is able to get a lot of people paid in some way. Um, Bethany Frankel mentioned the term reality reckoning, which is about ensuring that I think people on reality shows get an opportunity to get their money, right?
[00:30:08] You know, and, and there’ve been talks about unionizing and all of these things. So as people who are on these shows and who have been experienced. And, and look, you all know way more than I do, obviously, which is why you all are here and I’m asking.
[00:30:20] Eboni K. Williams: I’ll defer to Claudia because I have a very hot take on this that is gonna be fucked up.
[00:30:24] So go ahead, Claudia. Um,
[00:30:27] Claudia Jordan: Reality show producers love creating reality shows because they can pimp out people who have no idea that they’re supposed to be getting checks. Um.
[00:30:40] They are still airing those episodes in other countries, and even sometimes in America, there are no residuals. It is a buyout, and that is one of the points in the strike that the, that we would like to get changed. But, um, it, it is ridiculous. Okay. But once again, when you have people that this is their first and only time ever being on television, they’re like, they, it is an opportunity.
[00:31:00] I, I won’t deny that, but you’re just so anxious to sign it. But the whole industry needs an overhaul because it is not right. Because every time that show replays, they’re still selling that ad space to Coca Cola, to Doritos, to what have you, Microsoft, Sears, whatever the commercials are, they’re still making money at those episodes, but you get nothing.
[00:31:20] Um, it is absolutely ridiculous and, um, it needs to stop. So there’s a few people at the top that are making a lot of money, but most people are not. Like when they first came to me with my contract for Housewives, I said, you clearly must be joking. Like, oh, everyone got this. I go, okay, well, I haven’t, again, I had the luxury of having a job.
[00:31:36] I was on a Ricky Smiley morning show, so I was a desolate. I wasn’t desolate. I wasn’t coming up with Paul. I wasn’t relying on some man to pay my bills. I had a job. So I had a luxury and that’s, you know, I understand that everyone has that and I hate that for them. So, um, they rely on that, you know, I waited till the night before the reunion when they were asking me like, what’s up?
[00:31:58] And I signed my contract for the whole season. I work without a check the entire season and signed my contract the night before because if they really wanted me to be there, then you’ll agree to my term. So I wanted a certain number and I ended up getting it. You have to be fearless to do that. And I don’t want to sound like I’m coming from a place of privilege.
[00:32:15] You also have to be lucky enough, actually, in a position to be able to say no, because I understand for a lot of people, that’s not that reality. And I don’t mean a shit on them. You know what I mean? But it is nice to have another thing going because when they know you’re desperate, like I had a production company say when I was trying to negotiate, well, she just, you know, bought a car or a house, but we know she needs this.
[00:32:36] So in other words, she’ll take what we give her and you have to show them that you have other things going on, even if it’s not in the business. But yeah, the residuals are zero in reality television. It’s ridiculous. Sorry. All right. I want to hear what Eboni got to say cause I know she about to light them up.
[00:32:51] Eboni K. Williams: No, yeah, it’s really that you laid that out though, Claudia, because people need to know the behind the scenes. People need to understand the notion of leverage. Um, right. So when Claudia is able to say, um, I might’ve just bought this, that and the third, but first of all, get out of my pocket. Second of all, um, you don’t know what the other and see, this is why it goes back to having multiple income streams is vital.
[00:33:11] If you are to have any negotiating leverage. When it comes to any space, but specifically this reality television space, which most of our colleagues never do. Uh, because they are proud to say that they are career housewives. Uh, and like you say, you know, for the, I can name them, for the Nene Leakes, for the, uh, Kyle Richards of the world, you know, for the Teresa Giudice of the world that are making two, uh, two, three million dollars per season.
[00:33:35] Um, it worked for them until it doesn’t, right? Um, but for most of the, the kind of general public in reality television, it’s a, it’s a losing business model. But this is my hot take. In theory, do I believe in a union or some type of collective business bargaining and negotiation for reality TV, uh, talents?
[00:33:56] Theory, sure. Practically, I really don’t believe in it, and I’m gonna tell you why. Uh, Panama, you mentioned you used to be in a union for writers. Um, uh, Tambra, Claudia, myself, we’ve all at various points in our career, I’m sure, worked on and off of SAG AFTRA contracts, depending on the project, right? Uh, our makeup and glam squad, many of those, uh, ladies and gentlemen, are members of a union.
[00:34:21] You know the thing that all of those union… members have in common. They have a skill unions are for skilled workers. That’s what unions are for. Legally speaking, um, at Tambra’s laughing because she knows where I’m going with it. 99 percent of people on television are not operating within a skill. They’re just there.
[00:34:44] And so therefore, and that’s not shade. That is again, that is the practicality of the medium. So therefore, uh, any and everybody is going to be willing to take that 1, 500 per episode check that 30, 000, 60, 000 per season check. Uh, anecdotes. All first year housewives nowadays on all these housewives shows, it’s um, favorite nations, which means everybody gets the same money and it’s 60, 000 per season all in.
[00:35:19] So when they came to me with that offer, much like Claudia, I thought it was literally laughable and a joke, not just because I was special, just because I couldn’t believe anybody worked for that. Like that’s insane. Um, and it’s not what people think. It’s not just getting pretty and going to dinner. It’s work.
[00:35:33] You wake up on those trips at six o’clock in the morning. They put a battery on your pack, uh, on your back, you get a mic and you’re going till 11:30 or midnight. And they don’t want to hear shit about it. Um, and so it is a commitment, um, of your time and your effort. And they have an expectation. So I said, listen, I had a rate because again, I’m not new to the business.
[00:35:53] I might be new to reality television. I’m not new to television. So I have a rate. So y’all going to have to meet this rate. Or I have a very long list of other people that I’m sure will happily take. 60, 000 and be glad about it. Um, but again, that’s the leverage and I got to do that. That was a privilege for me to yay or nay it.
[00:36:12] The power of the ability to pass on a project. If we can just take a moment to speak on that. It’s very important. It’s important whether you work in this industry, whether you work in finance, whether you work in education, whether you work in any space, you really want to do the work, uh, as young Black professionals, um, or Black professionals of any age to put yourself in a position to pass or accept work, uh, depending on its honoring of your skill set.
[00:36:37] Um, so that’s my take. I don’t feel that reality television stars are in a position to, uh, demand a union because they’re not coming to the table with a particular skill set. Like, like I said, let’s take hair and makeup artists. If they all decided we’re gonna band together and we’re not going to, uh, do this for these projects unless they honor our collective bargaining rate, those people have a skill, not just anybody.
[00:37:00] Can do hair or makeup. Not just anybody can show run a scripted series. Not just anybody can even come fix your water pipes, Panama. There’s a plumber’s union. There’s an electrician’s union because all of those are skilled workers. Being on a reality television star does not make you a skilled worker.
[00:37:23] And that there lies the gap of this union talk.
[00:37:25] Claudia Jordan: 60, 000 a season for New York and then they want you to pay for your own hair makeup unless you’re doing a confessional is crazy in Atlanta was a little less than that. And I said, the minimum would have to be six figures or I couldn’t do it.
[00:37:39] Eboni K. Williams: Yeah, I got six.
[00:37:40] I got right at 100 being Carol Wadswell. It’s a widely known to me now. We’re the only housewives to come on and at least get 100, 000 first season. Um, because that’s how nasty they are in New York. And Claudia was able to breach that, um, you know, mandate as well. But, and the only reason Carol was able to do it was cause she came from ABC news.
[00:38:00] You know, and she said, this is my fucking rate, period.
[00:38:04] Claudia Jordan: Tamarbra want to hear from you. She is cracking up over there. I love how Tambra is laughing her ass off at us, Eboni. She’s like, yeah. This is the sweetest thing.
[00:38:18] Okay,
[00:38:18] Eboni K. Williams: do we need to go down to Jackson, Tambra?. We need to come down to Jackson?
[00:38:20] Tambra Cheire: Look, look, look, everything that you guys have said, like, you know, and Eboni was like, Eboni was almost in my head on her last segment.
[00:38:28] The things that she was saying was literally in my head. Like it’s, it’s so much the thing with me is that, and this is probably that even the business of it, from everything that we’ve talked about, of course, you know, from the business side to producers, to cast producers, produce. I can honestly say that we know that when we sign up for these shows, we know producers are going to produce.
[00:38:53] That’s what they do. You know, some people think it’s reality TV. For me, I used to think just reality television meant the people are real. These are, they’re representing themselves. They’re representing what they do. It’s not always the case now. And I’ve learned that that’s not always the case. And producers produce.
[00:39:12] I understand that we have six, seven producers. Just don’t even on Belle Collective and that’s just filming it in the field. That’s just by itself. And a lot of people, the audience do not realize that. But then you also have castmates who want to produce too. And that’s the problem that I started having when castmates want to be producers and they want to produce your story and what you’re doing and what they think that you should be doing.
[00:39:39] And so that’s the issue. I wanted to straighten that up too. When I said something earlier, when I said, yeah, it is fun. It is fun all the way up to season three, because in season three. I know Eboni watched. I know Eboni, she watched. You know, you start revealing some things that, some lies that were told that now you starting to see were not true from the very beginning.
[00:40:02] Belle Collective: Now, did I hear after that you shady from Tambra? Yes, I did. Latisha, when I say shady, I meant she throw shade. Not shady. That she’s shady and that I need to pay attention to what she’s saying. Shade. Shade. I shady. It doesn’t go in the same sentence.
[00:40:18] Tambra Cheire: And then there are some boundaries that I absolutely think you should not cross in reality TV.
[00:40:23] And to some people, some women feel there are no boundaries. And I do not believe in that. Some people want to win. They want to win. Eboni said that they want to win. I’m not a win by any means necessary type of person at all. I’m not, and that’s been in anything that I do from radio to TV, any platform, every platform for me has to have a purpose.
[00:40:44] Every platform. It has to have a purpose. Belle Collective has to have a purpose. I do think there needs to be boundaries when it comes. I think Eboni, you saw for me, even in this season, they went back to talk to somebody from five years ago. What part of relevant in my life? You may not know this, but the very person they went to talk to is someone I had to get two restraining orders against.
[00:41:08] So that’s a boundary that’s, that was crossed. That’s something a woman as a woman should never be crossed. But that’s that point of you’re running to producers. Hey, I have tea. I have tea. I have tea. I have tea. And this is what you need. And they never asked me when all you had to do was ask.
[00:41:26] Eboni K. Williams: Why would they ask you to clarify a point that takes the story away?
[00:41:31] Because the story narrative is what’s controlling. And then we need to name the fact that could it be, Tambra, that some of your castmates, and I don’t know any of them personally, except for actually, um, Akisha, but, um, uh, but some of the other ones, could it be that their lifestyles have now changed? In order to reflect, uh, an increase of visibility and income due to this show.
[00:41:53] I mean, we need to talk about that. People’s lifestyles change based off of this. They drive different cars, they send their children to different schools. And so now there is a, you know, we call them golden handcuffs. When I used to practice law, you would be at these big firms and now, now there’s, you know, you know, you’re staying up 24 hours a day, you’re drinking, you’re taking cocaine, you’re doing all this stuff because I got to make, you know, I got to build those hours to make that salary.
[00:42:19] This is no different. So now these people, they will go to the jugular. They will go to the pits of hell and come back from it in order to stay on these shows because now their lifestyle is dependent on it.
[00:42:33] Panama Jackson: All right, we’re going to take a break here and come back to my favorite segments here on Dear Culture, which are Blackfessionss and Blackamendations .
[00:42:40] And given I have no idea where this is going to go, I couldn’t be more excited for the finale of this show in my life. So stay tuned here for Blackfessionss and Blackamendations. Here on Dear Culture.
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[00:43:51] Panama Jackson: All right, we’re back here in Dear Culture talking reality TV with Eboni K. Williams, Claudia Jordan, and Tambra Sheree, and this has been a conversation for the ages. I’ve been enjoying this so much. It’s one of them things where I’m getting way more than I expected, and I just, I wasn’t even ready, and I love it.
[00:44:05] I, I love it so much. All right, so I have one final question before we get to our Blackfessions and Blackmendations, and, you know, we’ll go around the world on this one. We’ll start with you, Tambra. Are there any regrets? about doing this at all yet, being a part of the reality show, any regrets from, from being there?
[00:44:21] Tambra Cheire: Do I have regrets? I’m not going to say I have regrets of doing it because I can honestly say for me right now, it’s definitely done more good and I’ve helped more people. Like, I’ve actually inspired some people with this story. If you follow the real story, you know, I have inspired some people. I have encouraged some people.
[00:44:41] I have people reach out to me all the time about various things that I’ve said on the show and various things that I’ve actually done on the show. And they may be going through it. So when that aspect of it, no, I can’t say I regret it. You know, I was able to speak about fibroids to Congress. You know, that came from Belle Collective.
[00:44:59] So, you know, I can’t say no. Because, like I said, the goal is to always have a platform that has some type of purpose. So when it stops having purpose, that’s when, that’s, like, you know, Claudia said, you know, you get off on the bus stop. But it has to always have some type of purpose for me.
[00:45:17] Panama Jackson: Okay. I like that.
[00:45:18] I like that. Uh, Claudia, any regrets?
[00:45:21] Claudia Jordan: Sometimes I go back and forth with it because, um, before I did reality TV, I had more of a peaceful existence in this business. You know, I think when you’re not as known, um, it does make you extremely famous. I mean, as much as I had a long resume, I wasn’t famous to the people that are reality fans.
[00:45:37] You know, I was fans of people, people that knew game shows or new talk shows or new, you know, other things I was doing. I, I was known in their circles, but this was a whole different genre and, um, different demographic. And I just, I get frustrated with being misunderstood. And if you’re a person that actually hates being misunderstood, reality TV is probably not for you because as much as you may think, no, this will get, let people know the real me.
[00:46:04] No, this will let people know the real you that the producers want them to know. This ain’t going to tell the real you. And a lot of times I was really transparent and there was another show I did, The Next 15. Well, I was very transparent in the scene with someone that I didn’t realize how much hatred and contempt this woman had for me, um, and so when I’m over here, um, opening up about sexual assault that happened to me or, you know, really painful things, I’m being authentic in the scene, but I’m dealing with someone who’s not, who actually is just, like Tambra said, is just about winning, winning, winning.
[00:46:33] And I, I didn’t realize that I was opening up and giving someone the bullets to then shoot me later on and then make fun of it and you didn’t really get raped and it was just kind of re traumatized me again. So I think I would just kind of be a little bit more guarded. I’m very transparent in life, though, so I don’t know how I would do that.
[00:46:49] But, you know, I’ve just been open with the wrong people and then reality TV just puts a magnifying glass. If you think being hurt by someone in your circle is painful when they betray you, imagine doing it in front of a million people. Where they can retweet repost and then chime in and be in the comments and really ridicule you just for wanting to be transparent and thinking you’re helping somebody else.
[00:47:11] So I do regret maybe that part but as far as doing it No, I made my decision at the time. I just probably like in real life and in relationships, giving the right energy to the wrong people in the wrong scenes.
[00:47:23] Panama Jackson: I respect. I like that. Eboni, what about you?
[00:47:26] Eboni K. Williams: Zero regrets here. I was, uh, one season, so, you know, there was low risk involved for me.
[00:47:32] Um, you know, I… How could I regret it, Panama? I, you know, what’s hidden under kind of my time on Housewives, I found my whole biological father on that show. Um, you know, I was somebody who, just due to life circumstances, my mother was never able to tell me my father’s identity. My whole paternal identity was a mystery to me until 38 years old.
[00:47:54] Um, so through, uh, Housewives and I will credit the production team, they identified a genetic counselor for me, uh, an investigator. We were able to, uh, do that lineage tracing through Ancestry. com and bada bing, bada boom. And I know who my father is today, you know? Um, I know his name. I’ve heard his voice on the telephone.
[00:48:14] I know what he looks like. Um, so for just that positive impact, uh, which was a game changer for me and how I move in my relationships with men. Um, I seek less validation. I feel more legitimate. Um, so there’s just a lot of personal gain there. Then to Tambra’s point, the impact. Um, for every critic, uh, you know, there are five more people that say, I literally used the tactics that you used in that scene with Ramona or Luann at my job at the post office yesterday.
[00:48:44] Like, that’s very powerful, and I’m very grateful, yeah, to have been in a position to model how to deal with white fragility, racial ignorance. misogyny and all of the such in real time. Um, and I, I looked really great doing it. I will say one of the things I’m most grateful that I did do was pay for glam out of pocket.
[00:49:07] Uh, Claudia mentioned, um, you know, those episodes are still on Hulu. Those episodes are still on Peacock. Those episodes are still airing globally. Um, and for all of my days, I will always look fantastic in season 13 of Real Housewives of New York. And I’m grateful for that. Absolutely.
[00:49:24] Claudia Jordan: There are some positives.
[00:49:25] I’m glad that, uh, I didn’t really say anything purposeful and y’all did, I kind of feel like I’m being a little bit of a loser by not saying something purposeful. I hope that anyone who’s ever felt bullied, because I’ve definitely was definitely bullied. I hate to use that with adults. Sometimes I feel like it’s overused, but, um, hopefully I encourage people to stand up for themselves, no matter what, you know, I don’t care if there’s a thousand people against me and I’m over here if I believe in what I’m saying and I believe it to be right and true.
[00:49:51] Then I can be fearless and I hope other people can take from that, you know, like not going along with the crowd, not swimming with the rest of the school and standing up for what you really, really believe.
[00:50:00] Eboni K. Williams: So yeah. I think, I know people saw that, Claudia. Like people that didn’t even know you before Housewives.
[00:50:05] In just that one scene, let’s just name the scene, you know? Where you saw this nooby in this group, right? Um, just stand ten toes down.
[00:50:16] Real Housewives of Atlanta: There’s nothing wrong with her asking her and putting it on the table in front of everyone. That’s not being shady, that’s actually putting it on front street to discuss it like grown women instead of these little side immature conversations being bitchy and catty.
[00:50:26] Eboni K. Williams: And even, she says that about you, like you stood 10 toes down. I don’t give a fuck. I don’t care what y’all over here, kicking and laughing about. I don’t care if it’s just me. I am willing to stand in the cold on my principles. And I do think that, um, stands to this day. Cause that was many, many years ago that y’all aired that.
[00:50:45] And that, that still hits today.
[00:50:48] Tambra Cheire: And they always say when people have to team up against you, you see how powerful you are. You can’t just say, you see how powerful you are by yourself.
[00:50:58] Claudia Jordan: And I’m proud that that stem from no punk.
[00:51:00] Eboni K. Williams: Claudia is not no punk.
[00:51:01] Claudia Jordan: Neither are you. . No, you know, I’m proud that it came. I’m proud that it came from watching another Black woman, woman, Dmitri McKinney get disrespected and clowned and she wasn’t bothering anybody that entire season.
[00:51:16] And I hope I, I, I love when I see us standing up for each other because Black women, we’re the least protected and a lot of times at the hands of each other. So stop that bullshit sisters and y’all be yelling at men, protect Black women. How about you start with protecting your fellow sister? Cause I, I don’t want to, we know that men need to do it, but let’s not, let’s not forget a lot of women are the main ones on the blogs going the hardest against Black women. And we need to stop that shit and check ourselves. So yes, that part.
[00:51:50] Panama Jackson: Alright, well, you know, We’ve come to the end of this show. Though I imagine this could go on for hours and hours more. We might have to do that. There might need to be multiple sequels.
[00:52:00] Sequels and prequels and all the good stuff. We might need to get all that stuff going on here. But…
[00:52:04] Eboni K. Williams: Get the business baby, go ahead and send that contract over.
[00:52:07] Panama Jackson: Yeah, you know what, it’s in the mail right now. Don’t even worry about that. It’s, it’s in the mail. It’s in the,
[00:52:13] Claudia Jordan: um,
[00:52:20] Panama Jackson: So we like to do to end our shows here. We like to do Blackfessionss and Blackemendations . A Blackfessions is a confession. A Blackfessions is a confession about your Blackness. Something people would be surprised to learn about you, because you’re Black. Do you all have Blackfessionss for us? Tambra, let’s start with you.
[00:52:33] You got a Blackfession?
[00:52:34] Tambra Cheire: I don’t know. Would it be food? Like, I don’t, I don’t eat a lot of things that people think, like, chitterlings. Like, cause I stay in Mississippi and in the South. That would probably be Blackfessionss. Yep. I, oh, no, absolutely. Never. I don’t like the smell of them. If you’re cooking them, I’m walking out of the house.
[00:52:49] I don’t like the smell of them. Don’t want to see them. No. No, it’s not, it’s not, it’s not going to happen. Like, so I don’t eat a lot of things that people think I probably would. I don’t eat to be honest. I don’t do pork, beef, any of that. So, I’m just being honest. That’s like a confession.
[00:53:08] Panama Jackson: It is. That works.
[00:53:10] That works. That’s just fine. I appreciate that vulnerability. I appreciate
[00:53:17] that vulnerability. Claudia, what you got?
[00:53:18] Claudia Jordan: My Blackfessions is, ladies, stop putting, um, your hair and your vanity above experiences. Get in the water. Who cares? Get your hair done later. I see so many people ignoring or just say, I’m a beach person. I love nature. I love being out in the ocean and I just love it when I could just go in there and not give a damn about what the aesthetic is going to be, what it’s going to look like.
[00:53:42] And it ain’t cause I have, I’m privileged and I have good hair cause I have hair that is very all over the place when it gets wet. Okay. I don’t care. The experience of just being in the ocean and just kind of meditating and just feeling good. I mean, I know that’s not traditionally a Black thing, but I feel like more and more of us should get in there, experience the ocean, and stop being afraid of water.
[00:54:02] Teach your kids how to swim. And it’s just, it’s, it’s so fulfilling to me. The beach. And I, I see like, I’m gonna be out in the sun, or whatever. Nah, man, that’s for us. Our skin is built for it, so get your ass in the water. And who cares about your, your hair.
[00:54:17] Eboni K. Williams: My Blackfessions is… I don’t eat cornbread. Oh, just really, not only, not only is that weird because I’m Black, I’m Black and from Louisiana.
[00:54:27] Um, and I, I just don’t, I don’t like cornbread. The whole genre of cornbread? Yeah, I knew somebody was going to say that, that sugary shit. At that point, just give me cake. Uh, it is, it is. Okay. Yeah, at that point, I’ll just take, yeah. Okay.
[00:54:41] Panama Jackson: Alright, well, that’s, those are Blackfessions. And, so usually because people share things that are surprising, like not liking cornbread, We try to make sure that we allow people to do Blackemendations, which is to recommend something that they think folks should be up on, by, for, about Black people.
[00:54:56] Um, do you all have Blackemendations for us? So, Eboni, since you done thrown cornbread out the window for some odd reason, let’s start with you. Do you have a Blackemendation for us? Here at Dear Culture?
[00:55:06] Eboni K. Williams: I do. I actually have two. Um, I’m going to start with me, myself, and I, y’all should absolutely read and purchase Bet on Black, the good news about being Black in America today.
[00:55:15] If you’re not really into carrying around a book, the audio version features my lovely voice. So I encourage that. And then, um, my mentor, um, that I’ve never met and most of my mentors I’ve never met. Um, a lot of y’all be in our, all of our DMs talking about, will you be my mentor, bitch? Uh, let Baldwin mentor you, let Douglas mentor you.
[00:55:34] No, I’m serious. I told you he’s ridiculous. But yes, this is my favorite collection of Baldwin essays. Pick it up. Bookstores near you. Because I don’t have the time. I’m just kidding. Go ahead.
[00:55:49] Panama Jackson: It’s not that, it’s not that, the recommendation, it’s the way you presented that, Just then, it was just… It was, it was, I just wasn’t ready.
[00:56:01] I wasn’t ready.
[00:56:05] Eboni K. Williams: You can’t even, this is, this is daytime.
[00:56:07] Panama Jackson: Okay. All right. Do you have a Blackemendation for us?
[00:56:11] Claudia Jordan: Uh, of course. Watch my show. TGIF. We kind of pick up where Wendy Williams left off with hot topics is five days a week, 5 PM on the West coast, 8 PM on the East, on the Fox soul YouTube channel and all over your smart TVs.
[00:56:24] Tambra Cheire: I don’t have my book right here with me, but I do have a book. I think it’s. It’s still amazing and it goes, it still stands today. It’s Surrounded by Sin, Grounded by Love, 8 Simple Keys to Becoming a Better You. You can find that on Amazon, Barnes and Noble, my website. I also, something that people really don’t know, I have an immunity tea, like my own immunity tea.
[00:56:47] Like as a radio personality, I’ve always, I’m into herbs. I’m into herbs. So I actually created my own immunity tea. I am one of those people. Let me knock on wood. I still have not had COVID. I have not had a cold in years. Um, but I drink that immunity tea. So that’s something that I would definitely want more people to get on top of and our community.
[00:57:05] So I think that’s a good Blackemendation. It’s Tambra Cherie’s favorite immunity tea. Yeah, I think that’s pretty good. And of course, Belle Collective, I have to say Belle Collective November 10th on OWN. It’s back on.
[00:57:20] Panama Jackson: All right. Well, let me just say I genuinely appreciate you all being here. I, I don’t even, I, listen, I don’t even know how we’re going to edit this.
[00:57:30] I have, I don’t even know, but I’ve enjoyed this thoroughly. And I genuinely appreciate the three of you all for being here. This has been an absolute joy in the most random of ways. So, you know, thank you for that. Um, yeah. As we, as we get out of here, can you each tell people how they can keep up with what you have going on and how they can find your shows or, uh, just anything, how people can keep up with each of you, Claudia, let’s start with you
[00:57:58] Claudia Jordan: Again, Fox Soul, uh, five days a week. Fox Soul. Uh, there’s an app, but I recommend watching it on YouTube. Um, I have a few films. One went viral because of the ending scene, the editing, look at they ran out of money, but the movie’s still good. All I want is you part one or part two on to be. And yes, I shot a kid, but if you watch part one and part two, you’ll see, there was a reason can’t leave no witness anyways, I don’t want to give
[00:58:21] Panama Jackson: I watched both of those, by the way, I have seen both of those movies, by the way.
[00:58:26] Claudia Jordan: You have? See, everyone just sees a little ending that went viral, but like, there’s actually a real story.
[00:58:32] Panama Jackson: I watched the movies to get to that ending because I needed to see how we got there. Yes, I watched both of those, both of those films specifically because I needed to understand how we got to that CGI ending, but it was hilarious.
[00:58:46] Don’t shoot me. I’m just a kid. Bow. I loved it. It was great. So, all right, Tambra, how can everybody keep up with you and everything you have going on?
[00:58:56] Eboni K. Williams: I am definitely, I’m on Instagram. I try to stay, um, interactive on social media. I’m on Instagram at Tambra Cherie, my website www. tambracherie. com, Facebook Tambra Cherie on air.
[00:59:08] Of course, um, I’m on the radio every day on 97. 7, but online you can listen. Anywhere you are in this entire country from 10 a. m. to 2 p. m. Monday through Friday.
[00:59:20] Panama Jackson: All right, and Eboni, what about you? Break down the million things you got going on.
[00:59:25] Eboni K. Williams: Well, since I’m on theGrio’s podcast, let’s start with theGrio featuring Eboni K.
[00:59:30] Williams. That’s every day, Monday through Friday, 6 p. m. Eastern. Um, wherever you watch theGrio, uh, that’s both cable and digital. Also, Equal Justice with Judge Eboni K. Williams. Brand new show. We premiered, uh, in September to rave reviews. Catch that on your local listings wherever you, uh, are. And… Season three of Holding Court, uh, with Eboni K. Williams featuring the amazing Dustin Ross. We’ll be back soon, uh, very soon. People are in my DMs pissed that we’re not on right now. Y’all can probably guess why. Uh, but we will be back. We will be back. We will be back, uh, very, very soon with season three of that. Um, and you can also catch, like I said, buy my book, podcast, all the things.
[01:00:17] On Instagram. Auntie E is on Instagram and only Instagram. I don’t do no TikTok. Snapchat and none of that kid shit. Just Instagram.
[01:00:24] Panama Jackson: All right. Well, thank you all for being here. This has been great. Um, I’m sure this is going to be a very popular episode. Once, once people get listening, you ain’t going to be able to turn this one off.
[01:00:35] This has been great. I appreciate you all. Uh, thank you for being here. Thank you to everybody who listens to Dear Culture. Uh, here on theGrio Black Podcast Network, where we have conversations about the culture. Sometimes, there’s all kinds of shenanigans afoot. I usually, I’m usually hoping for shenanigans, but sometimes they just show up all on their own.
[01:00:55] Um, thank you all for being here. Thank everybody for listening. Thank you, Claudia. Thank you, Eboni. Thank you, Tambra. And… To everybody who listens, have a Black one.
[01:01:26] Writing Black: We started this podcast to talk about not just what Black writers write about, but how. Well, personally, it’s on my bucket list to have one of my books banned. I know that’s probably bad, but I think… Ooh, spicy. They were yelling, N word, go home. And I was looking around for the N word because I knew it couldn’t be me because I was a queen.
[01:01:45] But I’m telling people to quit this mentality of identifying ourselves by our work. To start to live our lives. And to redefine the whole concept of how we work and where we work and why we work in the first place.
[01:02:01] My biggest strength throughout, throughout my career has been having incredible mentors and specifically Black women. I’ve been writing poetry since I was like eight. You know, I’ve been reading Langston Hughes and James Baldwin and Maya Angelou and so forth and so on since I was like a little kid. Like the banjo was Blackly Black, right?
[01:02:20] For many, many, many years. Everybody knew. Cause sometimes I’m just. Doing some Sam that I just want to do it honor to be here. Thank you for doing the work that you’re doing. Keep shining bright and we and like you said, we gonna keep Writing Black as always. You can find us on theGrio app or wherever you find your podcast.
