With an impressive Hollywood career spanning decades, Jada Pinkett Smith reminds the world that she’s much more than salacious rumors and speculation about her marriage. Jada joins Maiysha Kai to dive into her memoir “Worthy,” which is an honest and deeply personal look at her upbringing, the family she’s created, and her journey to self-worth. Jada doesn’t hold back as she discusses the infamous Oscar slap, the dehumanization of Black women, and her undeniable bond with Tupac Shakur.
Full Transcript Below:
Announcer: You are now listening to theGrio Black Podcast Network, Black Culture Amplified.
Maiysha Kai: Hello, and welcome to another episode of Writing Black. I’m your host, Maiysha Kai, Lifestyle Editor of theGrio. And we have an exceptional guest today, someone that I think a lot of people have been waiting to hear for, hear from, excuse me, for a very long time. And, uh, we haven’t been able to see her at the Red Table lately, but we have her in house today.
That’s right. We have the one, the only Jada Pinkett Smith, who is here to discuss her brand new memoir coming out here in October, “Worthy”. Hi, Jada. How are you? Thank you for joining us today.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Thank you for having me. Thank you. ‘
Maiysha Kai: Listen, it’s been it’s a joy to have you here. And as somebody who grew up alongside you, I do mean alongside you.
It’s also been a joy to kind of, you know, watch your evolution, you know, from ingenue to, you know, A-list actress to mother and wife and singer and producer and director and, you know, all these things and they’re all coming together in this memoir, which, uh, you know, I think the word I used was Herculean, uh, Herculean effort here with this book, and I have to congratulate you on it.
But one of the things I do know is that a lot of these things you’ve talked about, you’ve brought people to the red table, you’ve brought yourself to the red table. And I’m curious to know, why now? Why was this the moment to kind of set the record straight on who Jada Pinkett Smith is?
Jada Pinkett Smith: Well, you know, I didn’t even write the book to set the record straight.
It’s like I sold the book 2021. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Actually, a very good friend of mine, Jay Shetty, just, you know, over the years was like, you got to write a book. You got to write a book. And, you know, just this one day we kind of got into this sibling kind of back and forth. And um, I was like, Jay, I really, I’m not interested.
And then I really had to go home and sit with them. I’m like, this is your brother. Maybe you’re missing something. And it’s like, wow. I was in meditation one morning and it came to me, my journey from unworthy to worthy. And he had watched my progression in that journey. Um, and I called him and I said, I got it.
I got it. And what I realized is that that’s a universal journey for all of us. I felt like with everything that I had been through and I’ve been through the gauntlet of criticism and scrutiny and what happened, that I actually, um, you know, my, my skin is pretty Teflon now and, um, you know, it’s still pretty taboo for women to, specifically women of color to share their deepest, honest, um, explorations of, of their journeys. Um, it’s just still considered very taboo. And I know that on my journey to self worth. I wish I had had more stories that I could refer to while I was on, you know, on my journey.
Maiysha Kai: Yeah. You know, I, I, first of all, thank you for correcting me that you were not setting the record straight.
And I, and I think it speaks to the book that it felt like, listen, you all are so interested. Everybody has so much to say, you know, that it did feel like that. It felt very much like, well, here it is for the record and whether you like it or not, here it is. You know, I loved that. And I definitely. Again, as as a contemporary in age, I saw myself in this book, I saw my own, uh, struggles with, you know, insecurities, self esteem, relationships, like all those things.
So thank you for writing it. And I also think, you know, there’s a there was an interesting timeliness, obviously about this book, uh, you say you, you decided to write it in December of 2021, um, you know, obviously, uh, you know, we, we can’t ignore the elephant of your other half in the room, uh, that Will Smith’s book had come out in, I think, November of 2021.
Uh, and a lot has transpired in the two years since that you were writing it and got to the, the completion of this and, um, there’s a lot of ground that you tread here. A lot of public speculation. I love that you kind of address some of that head on. Um, you know, obviously, you gave us entanglements. You gave us the slap.
You didn’t give it to us. No, you didn’t give us that one. But one of the things I love that you did say, and I’m going to be paraphrasing here, there’s a line that you have in the book, and I love this, where you say, um, I can’t give you the reasons for why he did what he did or what his motivation was, but I can only tell you what was going on in my seat from my perspective.
Here I am. This is what happened. And you give us this lens on something that I think, um, there’s a lot of myth busting that goes on here, um, when you’re reconstructing this scene, cause I want to get this scene out of the way. Cause obviously it’s a big one for people, you know, when you’re reconstructing this particular scene of this.
Now, pivotal moment, what is that like for you as a writer, like viscerally trying to reconstruct this moment that lives in the public imagination? Um,
Jada Pinkett Smith: I mean, I was, I was there and I lived it. So it was just a matter of just, um, you know, by the time I had gotten to that, um, to that chapter in the book. I had to really relive so many other experiences that were far more challenging to relive than that particular one.
So it was just about, um, you know, just going back to the day and, and, and tracing the steps of my, um, emotional presence as well as my spiritual presence and as well as my physical presence.
Maiysha Kai: And a lot was obviously projected onto you in the midst of that. And you know, when we talk about the slap and we talk about entanglements, obviously people wanted to link these two things in their minds.
Um, and you seemingly made a decision to really kind of call it out, you know, like, I am not the puppet master here. I am not the one pulling the strings. Was there an intent? Um, I mean, you know, I know you said you were not trying to set the record straight per se, but was there an intent to kind of, I guess, dismantle this idea that I think gets projected onto a lot of women, right?
You know, a lot of us get that thing where, you know, we’re presumed to have so much power, we’re pulling strings, but you know, but I felt a real vulnerability in that accounting and that, that recounting of both of those situations. Um, what was your, you know, goal there when you’re moving into it? Uh, I mean, obviously you can’t not talk about it, but what was your personal goal in terms of getting it out there?
Jada Pinkett Smith: Let me start with how I handled you know, my circumstance at that entanglement table, which was, you know, I took that on, right? Meaning that people thought that I had made Will come to the table. Um, and that, you know, I had put him through this enormous amount of embarrassment. Um. And so there was a lot of myth and misunderstanding around that Red Table Talk itself, right?
Excerpt from Red Table Talk
Jada Pinkett Smith (Red Table Talk): From there, you know, you and I were going through a very… Difficult time. Yeah.
Will Smith (Red Table Talk): And we decided… I was done with your ass.
Jada Pinkett Smith (Red Table Talk): Yeah, you kicked me to the curb.
Will Smith (Red Table Talk): I was done with you. Yeah. Then what did you do, Jada?
Jada Pinkett Smith (Red Table Talk): Well, you know, I think from there, you know, as time went on, I got into a different kind of entanglement with August.
Jada Pinkett Smith: And the idea that I was this adulterous wife, which that in itself was not true. As I explain in the book. We had broken up, we separated in 2016 and had been trying to figure out how to dissolve our marriage consciously. Um, but when it was time to come to the table and bring myself to the table, I decided to take it all on just to just to quiet everything and at the end of the day I felt like it was my mess. It was my hit to take
Excerpt from “Worthy”: “Once the conversation finally started now very late at night. We began with ease but midway through the table talk I could feel the conversation beginning to turn. Although at this point Will have been free as a bird for the last four years. Living his life on his own terms.
He seemed to convey that he had been done wrong At my reference to having had an entanglement, he sternly reframed it with a laugh, as a relationship. This came across as if this had all been a secret to him, when that wasn’t true, and that he had somehow found out about my relationship, as if I had not told him about it.
Here’s where I should have stopped the conversation, but instead, my habit of self betrayal overwhelmed me, and I swallowed my own voice. After a few more failed attempts at regaining the narrative, I resigned and abandoned the purpose of why I’d come to the table in the first place. To tell my truth, and to show how we were in partnership and working through being separated but not divorced.
Of course, I did what I was never trying to do again. That is, fall right into my martyrdom bag. It was clear that Will and I were no longer in alignment, that the train had gone off the track. Because I didn’t want to oppose Will publicly in my codependent way, I took the blame and played the pleasing and appeasing role I knew so well.
This trauma reaction was an old friend I thought I’d kicked to the curb, but clearly it could still be activated when I was in fear of being abandoned or not feeling protected. “
Jada Pinkett Smith: So, in me being responsible for assisting in that narrative, um, and then going into the Oscars, I understood why people thought, you know what I mean?
I had to, look, I had to take responsibility for that, honestly. Now, I don’t think that it’s right. Um, I do think that, and we just talked about this before, just as far as how a woman’s journey is far more taboo than that of a man. right? And that’s just what it is. Um, but I couldn’t overlook that. So in the telling of my story, you know, that was definitely, uh, an aspect that needed to be addressed and not just for me, for all of us as women, you know, and it seems as though, particularly for Black women that we don’t deserve compassion, you know, that we don’t deserve the space to be human, you know, that when we, you know, have our pitfalls, or, you know, even when we’re in childbirth in the hospital, and the idea that we should be able to take on an enormous amount of pain, more than anyone else, right?
Um, so all of these myths and all of these tropes that go along with being an African American female, from the gate, right? And then having to deal with the level of self hatred that we have in our community, right? That is oftentimes projected on to one another, right? And so there was so many very complex, complicated, um, you know, ideas within this, within this, you know, this relationship of Will and I, right?
That’s played out in the public in so many different ways. So it’s really complicated and it’s even far more complicated than what I wrote in the book, but I did the best that I could in speaking about it from my, you know, from my point of view.
Maiysha Kai: Yeah, and, and all of us who are navigating those issues are not doing it in the public eye, like you are.
We’re gonna talk more about that, and we’re gonna talk more about this journey of yours when we come back in just a second with more Writing Black and more Jada Pinkett Smith.
Maiysha Kai: We are back with Writing Black and Jada Pinkett Smith and her new memoir “Worthy.” and I’m gonna tell you right now, it’s worthy of reading, so you should pick it up. Um, You know, Jada, I, was really stunned by a lot of the revelations in this book. I mean, you really take us back to the beginning. This is a podcast about writers and writing, you know, as much as it’s about stories and storytelling.
And you do something great here where you take the hero’s journey, which is a part of almost every story ever written every everywhere. And you flip it into the heroine’s journey. And you were just talking about, um, how a woman’s journey is taboo. Like there’s so many aspects of our journey and how I think also, um, where the hero’s journey is often I think, represented as very solo, right?
This like, I’m out and I’m you know, um, while a woman’s journey is both alone and also. matrilineal is how you, you outlined it in this book, which I thought was so artful and, and so poignant. I think really resonated with me. And I think will resonate with a lot of women, especially as they read this book and you, you start us in this story in your grandmother’s garden and you, you kind of bring us on down the line.
And, um, when you were writing this and I don’t want to overlook, you know the fact that we have book shepherds and co writers and you know people who help us along with this when you were structuring the book was that something that you really, you know, how, how are you deliberate in terms of teasing out this kind of like family tree that starts in this garden, you know, and kind of blossoms from there and coalesces into you?
Jada Pinkett Smith: That was something that I really discovered in my, in my healing process, right? So before I sold the book, I created an outline, um, that I knew had to include the story of my grandmother and even pulling in a bit of my great grandmother, right? Because I saw in my healing process the dots that connected my great-grandmother to my mother to my grandmother to my mother to me right and and several things that had been passed down. And just like to do it for, you know, for my own healing process, but also like the heroines that I was born from, right?
And when I think about my, my grandmother’s story, what she was able to come through, you know what I mean? Like the, the, the power and the creativity and the love. That my legacy is made of. Right. Um, and so that was definitely in the, in the, the very seedling, the very beginning of, of my process in putting this book together.
Maiysha Kai: You also play, I think this is just needs, it might be a me thing, but it might be a you thing too. You also. to me really play with female archetypes. And I know as an actress, this is something you’re extremely familiar with, but you know, and people will debate how many female archetypes are. Some people say four, some people say as many as 13, but you know, I settled on seven that, uh, that we see in a lot of, you know, contemporary Western, uh, narratives.
Um, I’ve written them down the maiden, the mother, the queen, the huntress, the sage, the mystic, and the lover. Throughout this book, throughout the arc of this book, I see you in each of these roles. Yeah. I see you evolving through these roles, going back and forth and fluid and drawing in other people who are, you know, and it’s so interesting to me.
Did you think about those archetypes when you were writing this?
Jada Pinkett Smith: You know what, I wish I had those specific, you know, archetypes because it’s really hard. Like you said, there’s so many theories out there and so many different understandings of what the heroine’s journey is, what the types are, and what have you, you know, and I was like, okay, let me just come from, you know, just a very organic place within.
Right. And not even try to like place specific to say, Oh, this is me and my huntress stage. This is me and my sage stage. Just hoping that energetically it would be communicated, because it’s such, that’s when you realize it’s just universal. You know, it’s universal.
Maiysha Kai: Yeah. Well, I want to, I want to get into that sage a little bit because you know, obviously we have not had the pleasure of sitting at the red table with you weekly as of late, but you give us these little Red Table moments throughout this book. At the chapter. That’s right. That’s right. I saw, I saw the little red and I was like, is this a Red Table Talk?
So, I mean, you know, I think it’s important for people to understand like this is both a memoir and it’s kind of a, it’s a guide. There’s a, there is a, there’s your journey. And then there’s this invitation to engage in our own journeys. Um, did you see that as an extension of obviously this incredibly successful franchise you had already started.
I mean, was this the next phase of Red Table Talk? Is this the interlude as it were?
Jada Pinkett Smith: I just knew that, um, at my own Red Table, I hadn’t been able to share my story in the way that I, that I wanted to because It just wasn’t the platform that, you needed so much history and context in order for me to go into the stories in the way that I’m able to, in the book, because I really get to like, bring you into, uh, my, into my world.
I get to take you out of whatever you think Jada Pinkett Smith is in Hollywood and bring you into the inner cave, into the intimacy, behind the curtain Jada. And so, um, and I was like, but in doing that, I, now I got to bring the table in, you know, and now with this heavy story, be able to share what I’ve discovered.
It invites people into this intimate journey within myself, but hopefully inviting you into that intimate journey within you, because that’s what it’s all about, you know?
Maiysha Kai: Yeah. I mean, you know, I, I, you, you described the book as heavy and I, there are, there are parts that are definitely heavy. There’s also a kind of, um, the word I would use is cathartic.
It felt very cathartic.
Jada Pinkett Smith: It was really, it is cathartic. And it’s just me thinking about what it took.
Maiysha Kai: I’m sure. I’m sure.
Jada Pinkett Smith: You know what I mean? It was heavy for me, but you’re right. The book itself. You’re right. It’s not heavy.
Maiysha Kai: Well, I do want to talk about one of those aspects. We’re going to talk about in just one second.
I do want to. You know, give us a, just a breath and then we’ll be back with more Writing Black and more Jada Pinkett Smith.
Maiysha Kai: And we are back with Jada Pinkett Smith and her new memoir, “Worthy.” uh, Jada, thank you again for joining us on Writing Black this week.
This is, uh, an absolute delight for me. Again, you know, been right there alongside you pasting it through Gen X’s. We are something to do, you know.
But you know one of the beautiful things that comes out of this book that I think it ends up being, I don’t I think it’s both timeless and timely obviously is this exploration of your relationship with Tupac. This is something that you’ve discussed before it is you know, something that I’m sure people have a lot of ideas about, you know, everybody’s got their idea.
You, you kind of, when we talk about setting the record straight, you kind of lay it all out there for us, what it was, what it wasn’t. But obviously right now it’s such a interesting time. I mean, you know, you could never have predicted obviously that you would be putting out this book within weeks of an arrest finally being made.
Or there is an authorized biography coming out soon after yours, um, reflecting on that relationship, what was really looks like a soul connection, you know, just one of those, like, I’ve known you here, I’ve known you elsewhere, I’ll know you forever kind of relationships. How was how was that process for you excavating a lot of that?
Jada Pinkett Smith: That was probably one of the most difficult aspects of writing the book because what I had realized, I mean, I realized a while ago, you know, in the deep process of my healing journey that I never really I had given myself an opportunity to mourn Tupac in the way that, um, in its fullness.
And so, um, having to relive a lot of what I did in the book and, and sharing things that I never expected that I would, um, I think that was, was really very difficult for me. Um, and you know, I just realized, I was like, Oh man, you still got a lot, you got work in this area. You know, I, I still have my relationship with grief is, um, is a very, uh, you know, I’m still trying to figure out how to do that because I’ve had so much loss and specifically at an early age.
So, um, I just kind of took the motto on of just keep it moving. And I think a lot of us do that. You know, it’s like we don’t have time to sit down and grieve and there’s so much going on, we gotta just keep it moving. And, um, so I’m still in the process of learning how to grieve in general. And specifically, grieving him.
Maiysha Kai: Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things that I, I really did admire is that you, um, you held this, beautiful space for him. Um, and it, and it seemed that you all did that for each other while he was alive as well. But you didn’t idealize him. You, you didn’t try to, you know, paint him as this perfect, you know, infallible person. You know, that we should all hold in our memories and, you know, in this way. And I think that there’s a temptation to do that when you’re writing about someone that you’ve loved and lost. Um, was that just, I mean, was that just keeping it real? Was that. Really something that you had to go over again and again.
Jada Pinkett Smith: No. Pac would never want that. He was multidimensional. Pac never, ever presented himself as perfect. Pac would have wanted me to, um, just be honest about what I saw, you know, what I experienced with him. Um, and Pac was raw. He’s one of the most passionate, most raw individuals I’ve ever met. And he would want me to keep it 100 with it all, you know.
And so, um, that, and that’s what our relationship was about. Our relationship was not about… You know, that’s what our relationship was. So that’s what I put on the page.
Excerpt from “Worthy”: “Being as young as we were and as tight as we were, we both found it confusing at times that we weren’t drawn to each other romantically.
Hence the day he got on my last nerve about the possibility of being more than friends and I dared him to kiss me. Without hesitation, Pac grabbed me in his arms and did just that. The kiss lasted a few seconds before we both pulled away in mutual disgust. It felt wrong. Pac pulled back with his eyes all squinted as if he had drunk spoiled milk.
He wiped his lips hard and said, What the fuck? I laughed my ass off. See, I told you, dummy. It was literally like a sister and brother trying to make out. All I knew, though, was that it was possible to really love a guy deeply without it having anything to do with sexual attraction. I had never felt that before.”
Maiysha Kai: Yeah, I mean, it definitely if there was ever a relationship that seemed to embody that twin flames kind of dynamic, you know, even the ascent like me, you know, it’s so you hear about these stories, right, that the improbabilities of two people from the same place at the same time ending up in the same sphere, you know, I guess it does happen more often than you think people, you know, but it was kind of it was kind of amazing too. Especially those of us who were there in real time watching it.
Oh, is that how that happened? Yeah. Right. Um, yeah. And I mean, and similarly, you know, I think I think I said this earlier, there’s a lot of myth busting that goes on here. Um, including the mythology of the perfect marriage, the perfect mother, you know, what does that look like? Who, who are these people? You know, um, you know, what, what is the red carpet and what is that red table?
Jada Pinkett Smith: Right.
Maiysha Kai: Um, You know, obviously when you’re writing about people that you love that you live with that, you know, you have a life with These are it’s delicate to write about somebody, you know, there’s this this quote that floats around I think Lena Dunham said it like the worst thing you can say to somebody is that “I’m writing about you.”
Yeah Now in your case in your case, you know, obviously It’s almost like you have a literary companion here, these two literal bookends of, you know, his story, your story and whatever falls in between, right? But were there conversations about that? Like when you were, you know, with your children, with Will, with your mother, you know?
Jada Pinkett Smith: Oh, yeah. I had conversations with everyone about the stories that would be written, approach. Um, my mother. I was very, um, made sure that she was in step, you know, she understood exactly what I was putting on the page and she read it. Um, I communicated with my kids, the stories that I was sharing about them, um, communicated with Will.
Will read the book, um, and so I, I wanted to make sure that this book was written in harmony, um, and, and, and not to not, but not to abandon my purpose and not to abandon my truth. And so it’s, I, I, you know, one of the things that I learned at that red table, at that entanglement table, you know, while we’re in the process of trying to learn how to love ourselves, um, you know, and trying to learn to love our loved ones who are right next to us.
That balance of, loving yourself and not leaving your loved ones on the side of the road and loving your loved ones and not leaving yourself on the side of the road and what that entanglement table What I got to see is that I, I didn’t, I wasn’t as prolific at learning how to love someone that I love deeply and not putting myself on the side of the road.
And so this book was a real, um, was a real curriculum in me figuring out how to have everybody on the road together. Um, you know, how do I love myself and love all those around me and my truth?
Maiysha Kai: And did you, did you sense any shifts in those relationships for you with you being able to put your truth out like that?
Jada Pinkett Smith: Um, I would sense shifts in people, uh, really embracing my journey and understanding, um, the necessity of this healing process that came through this book for me. And got all the support around it for sure.
Maiysha Kai: I love to hear that. Yeah. That does not always happen.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Um, Oh, but yeah, for me, I was very, I’ve been very blessed in that way.
Maiysha Kai: Well, listen, you’ve been blessed in a lot of ways because some of the, some parts of this book, I’m going to go back to the, to the Baltimore days. Uh, there are a lot of surprises in this book, like things that I just don’t think people will. would know about you or suspect. Exactly. Exactly. Like there were a couple of moments I found myself running into the other room talking to my, to my partner.
Like, “Yo, did you know that Jada, Jada was like a queen pin?”
Excerpt from “Worthy”: “When you live in an environment where you were seen as unworthy and you feel unworthy, you’re going to treat others that way too. These kinds of dog eat dog conditions can turn anyone selfish, which could make selling drugs simply a part of the game of life.
This was my way to financial stability and mobility. I wasn’t going to become a hustler’s girlfriend. I had seen with my own eyes the level of control and enslavement that came from being financially dependent on a man. Some of the girls in my circle looked to their drug dealer boyfriends to give them places to stay, cars, jewelry, and clothes so they could have a better life, at the cost of enduring cycles of betrayal and abuse that were unthinkable to me.
Fuck that. If anyone was going to give me the trappings of the good life, it was going to be me. I came to the conclusion that I could be as successful a drug dealer as any man. In my view, I could work my way to running a whole operation. Be a queen pin.”
Maiysha Kai: Sorry, I had to spoil it for him. I was like, I, I, I was, I was shocked.
I was, I was like, ah. What? It’s like an alternate reality, like, and you know, I have to, I, on that note, I have to shout out Debbie Allen because you know, there is this thing that happens when we’re seen right by somebody. And I, I think, you know, it does bring us full circle to the book itself. Like, you know, I, I see, I saw you in this book. I saw myself. as well. Um, there was these repeat, there were these repeated testimonies to what it means when somebody sees you and affirms. your experience and your existence and you know, I think, um, it’s wonderful if you get the opportunity to tell a tale, but when you don’t, it’s wonderful when somebody else can tap in.
Jada Pinkett Smith: That’s it for sure.
Maiysha Kai: Like I don’t know if everybody knew that Lena James was actually inspired by you.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Yeah. She was inspired by me. Yup.
Excerpt from “Worthy”: “My intention was to go in and faithfully portray this student who had HIV and give a great reading. After I read for the role, Debbie seemed impressed and we started talking.
Debbie paused and looked into my eyes as she spoke, thoughtfully saying, we are going to give this role to someone else. I nodded. She went on. I want you on this show as a series regular. Are you serious? I responded as calmly as I could. Yes, baby. I want you on this show. I’m going to create a role for you based on your life.
Maiysha Kai: I mean, how many people can say that and you can say it more than once and I’m not going to spoil the other one, but you can say it more than once. Um, so you know, you’ve started, you’ve now started this writer’s journey. Um, are you continuing on this writer’s journey? I’m, I’m, I’m, you know, I was really enthralled by this book and true confession.”
I’m going to be really honest here and be honest. Our audience is going to be a little appalled. Um, I had “Will” on my bookshelf for since it came out and I hadn’t read it, but your book Compel me to read it. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Will.
So, you know, just to tell you though, that’s how enthralled I was by your book, but I was like, I need more to this story. There’s more story. I need more stories. Are there more stories?
Jada Pinkett Smith: Are they? And listen, as deep as this book goes, it scratches the surface.
I’m hoping one day, you know, and he and I’ve been talking about it, uh, possibly, um, Will and I writing a book together called “Don’t Try This at Home.” And um,
Maiysha Kai: That’s a great title.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Yeah. So that’s where we’ve been talking about that because us talking about our journey together and specifically for, you know, intimate partners, I think could just be, whoosh.
Maiysha Kai: Absolutely.
Jada Pinkett Smith: We’ve been through a lot. We’ve been through a lot. I mean, what we’ve come through together has just been, you know, and it’s kind of what, just kind of understanding, when we’re trying to break through and get understanding around the balance of breaking through romantic relating and getting more into, like, what love… entails and getting to the things we truly want. It’s, it’s not for the faint at heart, it just isn’t.
Maiysha Kai: Listen, I would read that book. I’m engaged, and I would read that book because I do think like, you know, there’s so much to be even be learned in the letting go. Yeah. In the, in the being able to, uh, I don’t know what’s like, listen, I was born in Minnesota, it’s like fly fishing.
It’s like the , you know, catch and release. Right. . Right,
Jada Pinkett Smith: Right. Right. Absolutely.
Maiysha Kai: And some of that just comes with wisdom, wicked wisdom, if you will. I’m throwing that in there. So, you know, you, you quote a lot of amazing people. I found myself, you know, take starting a little notepad of, of some of the, uh, writers that you reference in this book, who had informed your journey.
Um, you know, oddly enough, I, I, the, the archetype thing came to me cause I was like, man, this was like Nina Simone’s like four women, but like, who do you? Who do you read? I ask this of all of our guests. Who do you read? Who do you love? Who inspires you the most? I, you know, I know you referred to Jay Shetty.
Like, who do you, uh, who inspires you along this continuing journey? Because, you know, it’s, it’s ongoing. It’s still going.
Jada Pinkett Smith: It’s still going. Never ending. Right? Um, got to give a shout out to Bell Hooks. Man,
Maiysha Kai: Who was a mentor of yours.
Jada Pinkett Smith: A mentor of mine and my, like in my early, early 20s, right? Yeah. Bell was like, she was so amazing, you know, and, um, I just picked up again her book, “All About Love.”
Yeah. Ah, man. It’s just, um, and so Bell is one. Um, I love, I write a lot about Clarissa Pinkola Estés, this book, “Women Who Run With the Wolves.” That’s a, that’s a, that’s like a book that’s been by my side since I was like 19, 20 years old. Um, but I do a lot of non-fiction reading. Right now I’m, I’m reading, uh, a book around Sufi, uh, female mystics, um, which has been extraordinary and a specific woman in general, “Daughter of Fire,” which is an autobiography of her spiritual journey, um, in the mysticism of, of, uh, the, the Sufi tradition.
Um, but I read a lot of nonfiction. And it’s usually around religion and spirituality. I love, I just love reading about religion. So whether it’s Islam, Christianity, Judaism, you, you name it. Um, Sufism, um, Sikhism. I just, And it’s usually more the mystical elements of those particular traditions, but that’s usually what I’m reading about.
Maiysha Kai: Oh, and shout out for dismantling those Scientology rumors, by the way.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Oh, yeah.
Maiysha Kai: You put that in good context here. Yeah.
Jada Pinkett Smith: So, yeah, it’s, that’s usually my reading, but it’s definitely some fiction that I, that I’ve loved, you know, along the way too.
Maiysha Kai: Well, you know, I, Again, I was so enthralled by this book. That’s the word that keeps coming to me enthralled.
I found myself, I mean, I devoured it first of all, I think I like kind of inhaled the book. Um, and uh, that doesn’t always happen. So I want to thank you for that because it was definitely a pleasure reading. And there’s so much more that we didn’t even really uncover here, but I don’t want to spoil it for people because I really want them to pick up “Worthy.”
I think it’s such an incredible, um, exploration of you and again, an invitation to explore ourselves. So thank you so much, Jada Pinkett Smith, for writing this book. I wouldn’t mind seeing it come to the screen or some sort of something, you know, I’m just gonna put that out there, you know, you know, people.
I don’t know. Maybe it’s a limited series. I’m just saying, I’m just gonna, you know, but I so appreciate you joining us here at theGrio and on Writing Black and, uh, y’all pick up “Worthy,” pick it up, pick it up, pick it up. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Thank you so much. It was a wonderful conversation. I had a beautiful time. Thank you.
Maiysha Kai: As did I.
Jada Pinkett Smith: Have a good one.
Maiysha Kai: You too.
Well, that was a culmination of a lot of questions I’ve wanted to ask, and there’s even more.
And to have them answered, I highly suggest you pick up “Worthy.” But this is the section of Writing Black where we talk about my recommended reading, a little section I like to call Mai Favorites. And of course, in addition to “Worthy,” I do highly recommend reading “Will.” It’s um, not the same story, but it’s an excellent companion piece.
You know, both Will and Jada take us back. These are their origin stories, you know, and hers is a heroine’s journey. His is a hero’s journey. Um, it’s kind of fun. Um, and intriguing to see how their stories overlap, um, intersect, contradict, uh, converse. It’s, it’s, you rarely get that opportunity. So I highly recommend actually reading both books.
And I think it’ll give you, um, a really great perspective on what goes on behind the curtain, you know, behind that gorgeous facade. What is happening, uh, in the background. Another memoir that I’m digging into right now. I haven’t finished it yet, but I highly recommend already is, uh, Raquel Willis, “The Risk it Takes to Bloom on Life and Liberation.”
Uh, Raquel Willis, if you were not familiar, um, incredible activist trans activist, um, and. This is a story that is not to be missed. So I just wanted to give a shout out to Raquel. I’m going to finish it, I promise. And hopefully we’ll have her on soon to discuss the book. But in the meantime, if you want to catch up on any of the episodes of Writing Black, you can do so on theGrio Black Podcast Network or anywhere that you get your podcasts. And we will see you next time on the next episode of Writing Black. Thanks so much for joining us for this week’s episode of Writing Black. As always, you can find us on theGrio app or wherever you find your podcasts.
